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Added Oct 28 2017

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/man-critically-wounded-in-portage-park-shooting/

    Man critically wounded in Portage Park shooting
    A man was shot and critically wounded early Saturday in the Portage Park neighborhood on the Northwest Side. At 3:47 a.m., the 20-year-old suffered gunshot wounds to his abdomen, back, arm and buttocks in the 5800 block of West Waveland, according to Chicago Police.
    https://chicago.suntimes.com
  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Again, http://www.heyjackass.com has all of the up-to-date statistics on Chicago and shootings for the last 5 years. Looks like guns are doing awesome - keep up the great work!

  • Mike Bayne Dunning area New to the area and have 2 children.

    @AnnM,

    I could not have said it better myself. There's a name for people who disagree with our 2nd Amendment and what it is meant. That name is VICTIM. I refuse to be a Victim of a tyrannical government, or people who have no regard for my life or my family.

  • Mute Mute Me

    " Looks like guns are doing awesome "

    By the looks of it black males are doing awesome.

    Eliminate men and blacks and then look at how much damage guns do. Seriously how would those numbers look if there were no men or blacks? The numbers are there. Eliminate those two equations and wow not such high numbers anymore. How if guns are the problem?

    Or maybe I'm just sexist and racist?

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Keep throwing guns at the problem. Plenty of victims to go around.

  • Mute Mute Me

    Did I miss the numbers on the legal vs illegal factor?

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Mute, I muted you a while back from another thread, apparently. That being said, I "took the bait" and peered under the hood. So you're suggesting that guns are not the problem and we should eliminate males and blacks from... the city? the population?

    Would future human life just be spawned via cryogenically frozen spermatozoa? I'm a little fuzzy on this solution of yours. Then again, it's probably why I heeded your advice and muted you long ago. Either way, I am a strong advocate of less killing off of the human race - I know, we've done a lot of terrible things and are, by far, the most ferocious predator on the planet. But I still feel we possess the capability of doing things that are GOOD for one another. I'm going to be sure to do something GOOD for a stranger today in an effort to offset this desire to cause harm to others that is being expressed by some in this thread. But... best of luck with your genocide!

  • Mute Mute Me

    "we should eliminate males and blacks from... the city? the population?"

    no how on earth did you get that idea?

    " this solution of yours"

    it was your solution not mine so unfuzz it yourself

    "your advice"

    the only advice i gave was removing factors from the equations to see if your guns are the problems theory stands up after that

  • Tami, what's your fix? Please tell us what un-constitutional gun law would create your imaginary safe world. Exactly which one of those laws will the thugs abide by? Are you going to eliminate every firearm from the planet? If not, you are the one who is clueless. Assuming your are a citizen, you inherited an awesome responsibility to preserve liberty for all future generations. You should really educate yourself on the history of our Constitution and take that responsibility seriously. There was a time not long ago when no one batted an eye at gun ownership. Even schools had gun clubs. Funny, I don't recall mass shootings or accidental shootings being a problem. Maybe you should focus on the real problems, which are many, instead of focusing on my God given right to protect myself however I choose. Go take an intro to gun safety class. You might get over your fear.

  • Mike Bayne Dunning area New to the area and have 2 children.

    @Fisch

    Google the word "facetious" and apply it to Mute's comment concerning eliminating men and black people. Geez Liberals and now adding Musicians/Web Developers, are so fragile and naive.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Thanks Mike - hopefully one day I can be void of feelings too!

  • Mike Bayne Dunning area New to the area and have 2 children.

    Why not? You're already DEVOID of common sense and a grasp of the meaning of the words LITERAL, SARCASM and FACETIOUS. Stick with the music industry, I'm sure you have lots of support from your fellow musicians. Party on Garth!

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    So much anger there. I hope your children don't have to suffer through your condescension as well. I am well aware of how words work but thanks for pointing out what you feel I need to work on in life (<-- see? I have a grasp of sarcasm! I'm LEARNING!)

  • Mike Bayne Dunning area New to the area and have 2 children.

    No anger at all, just bewilderment that you mistook mutes comment, for his actual feelings on the subject matter. It confuses me even more that you took time to chastise his obvious facetious remark.

    As far as my children, both sons doing well, one in college the other in the Marines. Both following the example of their father, who both served in the Military and then went on to earn his degree in Network Engineering. So I would say they not only respected the way they were raised, they also benefitted and used it to excel in life.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    If one was simply bewildered then why jump to ridicule and condescension?

    Glad to hear the kids are alright!

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Also - while we're learning more about one another: it's development that is really key for me to "stick with" as you put it. While music is (and always will be!) my passion, technology is where the money is and is the means for providing my niceties in life. I suppose you could say that one of my professions earns the money that the other one demands. I enjoy the yin/yang of the 2 in my life!

  • I muted mute too.

    AnnM you should lay off the crack pipe.

  • Mike Bayne Dunning area New to the area and have 2 children.

    It wasn't meant to ridicule as much as pointing out the obvious. I personally thought you knew he was being facetious, but just wanted to make fun of the person, to make it sound as if they were serious. Because you delved into the absolute absurdity of the comment and tried to offer a glimpse as to why it could not work.

    If that wasn't your intention, my apologies. As far as being a musician, my son who attends THE University of Michigan. He got a partial scholarship, because he has been playing the trumpet since grade school. Something I supported since he was 3, and played his 1st Kazoo like Dizzie Gillespie himself. He is using his musical talent to get a degree in Political Science. So not critical of something, that has allowed him to attend college at a discounted rate.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    I honestly did not pick up on the facetiousness of mute's commentary on first read. I was obviously wrong in my assumptions there and a) admit it & b) am please to see that I was wrong there!

    It's nice to hear about your son's musical background. For me, it's such a fantastic release creatively and spiritually! In an ideal world, it's all I would do for my livelihood.

  • Mike Bayne Dunning area New to the area and have 2 children.

    My musical talent consists of, being a pretty good whistler. Haha.

    Good to end the conversation on a good note, no I'll intentions on my part. Again, if it was perceived as an attack, it was unintentional. Nothing I hate more than "internet tough guys", I'd hate to be compared to one.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Ditto! I'm a big fan of having a healthy, open dialogue between "opposing parties". Not everyone is going to agree on every stance but, IMO, it is important to continue dialogue in an effort to gain understanding and respect. Have a great weekend, Mike!

  • Mike Bayne Dunning area New to the area and have 2 children.

    Agreed, it's much healthier than hate.

    Have a great weekend.

  • Mute Mute Me

    Again that site is pretty informative but it kinda makes black males w guns look like the overwhelming. problem. Not just guns. If you go by their statistics. White senior women with a gun living around ohare aren't as problematic as black young men living on the southside.

    Where are their stats on registered gun owners vs unregistered ones? How about income? They left out income levels. There are so many factors they aren't including. It kinda muddles up the statistics.

    How about criminal backgrounds? Where are the statistics on gunshots from ex cons vs clean record holders?

    I see this link posted all the time

  • If we're going to eliminate blacks and guns, we must also eliminate rental of Home Depot trucks.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    In regards to not having enough statistics about guns - give it time, we will be forced as a nation to gather more information. In the meantime, my radical/liberal/outlandish suggestion: how terrible would this nation be if everyone was limited to the right to own A handgun and A rifle and no more? Would laws still be broken? Would there still be a black market? Would automatic weaponry still find their way into people's hands? Yes a thousand times over. But would it be a bad thing? I certainly don't think so.

  • Mute Mute Me

    ". But would it be a bad thing? "

    Depends on what you feel is bad. It also would depend on if that stopped illegal shootings. I'm my opinion taking away law abiding citizen rights due to non law abiding citizens rights is in fact a bad thing. Say we did what you say and nothing changed. Yes then I think it would be a bad thing. Again it depends on what you think is bad. Would you be all for sterilizing all black men to prevent black male shootings? I doubt it . how about just people who are criminals? I doubt it? Why? Because all of a sudden you care about peoples rights? Why can't people focus on the real problems?

  • That was spot on, Mute. You have me rethinking the joint FB account ;-)

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Focusing on real problems.... so why is it that you believe "black men" are the largest demographic for the shootings? Persecution, Jim Crowe laws, being handed the lowest forms of public education, job opportunities, healthcare, ad nauseam. It has nothing to do with DNA, race or color. It has to do with schism. End the schism and you will see progress as a species.

  • The Civil Rights Act was passed over 50 years ago and it has been an abject failure. If this were not true, we would not be having the conversation here and elsewhere.

    Time for a new approach which starts at home. I don't want the government telling me what to do or where I live. If the home life of young black man included a father figure more so than it has in my entire lifetime, that would be a good start. Any children (black, white or brown) that come from a broken or dysfunctional home have a good chance of finding trouble and having problems making the right decisions in life.

    The more important question is how do we get baby daddies to stick around and do the right and responsible thing?

  • Mute Mute Me

    "so why is it that you believe "black men" are the largest demographic for the shootings? "

    Because the link you provided clearly states that!

    Why is it so hard for you to see that guns alone aren't the problem but you can easily see black men alone aren't the problem?

    I think you keep missing the point. Have you even looked at the link you provided? If you want us to think guns are the problem provide statistics that show they alone are the problem. That link you provided proves guns aren't the problem. It has much more to do with where gun owners live. What color they are.what sex they are. (Well according to that link)

    Just throwing statistics you threw out back at you.

    Its funny how when I blame black men you make an excuse for them and cite other reasons that justify black mens actions. Black men were way more oppressed in jim crow days but weren't committing all these homicides! How is that if oppression is the issue?

    I've mentioned quite a few issues that could contribute to gun violence. Income level. Criminal history. Legality of gun owners. I think your issue should be brought up to the site you quote. They have left quite a bit of factors out. If you don't want people blaming black men for shootings don't post a link stating black men commit the overwhelming majority of shootings .

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    What I meant by my statement, Mute - is what do you think the *REASON* is for "black men" being the largest demographic for the shootings?

    I never said guns alone are the problem. That is why I am constantly striving for social equalities. If you offer the same education, employment, housing, healthcare privileges to all then you can begin to bring down the hundreds of years' worth of oppression and schism that have caused the demographic statistics you keep pointing out.

    CubsHawksBears - if this "starts at home" then rather than point fingers at the "baby daddy" issues you bring up, teach your offspring that we are ALL equal and deserve equal compassion, empathy, respect and understanding for one another. One Earth - One People.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    "The more important question is how do we get baby daddies to stick around and do the right and responsible thing?" > By, like you said, starting within your home. Reducing schism, voting locally to provide for equal opportunity to those less fortunate than you (education, healthcare, career paths & resources, residential living, etc.)

  • @Fisch, you aseerted, "teach your offspring that we are ALL equal and deserve equal compassion, empathy, respect and understanding for one another. One Earth - One People."
    What makes you think I haven't/don't???
    While I agree there should be more ompassion, respect and empathy in this,world, I can't connect the dots to the lack of those things and the increased gun violence in this world...and more specifically on the South and West sides of Chicago.
    Can you connect those dots for me with facts and not feelings or opinions?

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    That is *FANTASTIC* to hear that you do that, CHB - seriously!

    I can make an attempt at connecting those dots for you - sure:

    For those of our population that were not born into privilege (via a healthy home, upbringing, healthcare, education system, community, career choices and opportunities) - it is a self-perpetuating cycle. There are plenty of statistics out there that show this. Here are some I was able to drum up:

    https://goo.gl/BzfAkn

    https://goo.gl/4vN4iG

    https://goo.gl/fHhy8X

    https://goo.gl/mpLWBE

    Again, provide equal opportunities for all of your citizens regardless of race, economic status, social standing, income, location, etc. and watch how *OVER TIME* the statistics no longer point towards race, economic status, social standing, income, location, etc. When born into privilege (by all sorts of different means), it can be difficult to see the big picture here. Oppression and schism seems to know no bounds and proliferates into our society into so many different ways.

    There will be a brighter day. Seriously.

  • From Wikipedia;
    "Civil Rights Act of 1964 is a landmark civil rights and US labor law in the United States that outlaws discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin."

    So Fisch, what you are suggesting is that the Democrat/union run school system is, and has been discriminating against children without privilege hear in Chicago (and similarly in other jurisdictions nationwide) for 53 years. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 makes that illegal on a federal level. So, those in authority should be charged with a Federal crime as they are violatinng Federal law. The CPS hierarchy and other similarly corrupt school systems should be blown up and proper authority should be put in place to properly see to it that the education system does not discriminate and give people of color a chance out of the blocks.

    Or am I missing something, Fisch???

  • Mute Mute Me

    "what do you think the *REASON* is for "black men" being the largest demographic for the shootings"

    I try not to think about the reasons why people do things. There is really no way to know. No use in guessing. None of us know the reasons anyone does anything
    except ourselves and even some people don't even know their own reasons for doing things.

    "While I agree there should be more ompassion, respect and empathy in this,world, I can't connect the dots to the lack of those things and the increased gun violence in this world."

    "I can make an attempt at connecting those dots"

    Lousy attempt. Sharing statistics on black public school students being far likelier to attend high poverty schools than white students doesnt connect any dots to increased gun violence.

    % of students in high poverty schools statistic connect zero dots to increased gun violence.

    sharing statistics on unemployment rates of black vs whites connect zero dots to increased gun violence.

    Sharing statistics of earnings show no connection to rates of gun violence.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    SportsSportsSports - no, that is not what I am suggesting. However, I'm sure there are plenty of examples in which the act has been betrayed.

    In my opinion, you're missing lots of things. Take a look at definitions of privilege and equality.

    Also not sure what you mean by "out of the blocks" - did you mean the expression "out of the box" or did you mean giving people of color a chance to leave their neighborhood? Not sure there.

    Ah, also check out the difference between "hear" and "here" ;)

    Mute - thanks for pointing out that I've let you down on connected dots. It sounds like you are the keeper of the solutions - why not grace us with some of them? :)

    I have a lot of other tasks on my list for the day. It's a bummer that the statistical information I provided didn't help you any. I tried.

  • Mute Mute Me

    "sounds like you are the keeper of the solutions"

    ive never claimed to have solutions. Im more a keeper of reality. Reality is crappy people exist and always will and limiting people to 2 guns legally will do no good.

  • What is a shame is that fisch doesn't recognize that the Democrats are playing a shell game with people of color. The Dems make it appear as though they are trying to help people of color dating back to the Civil Rights Act. But here we are, years later, opining about the very things that the 1963 CRA should have addressed by now... nearly 2 generations later.

    If you get something without working for or earning it you come to depend on and expect it. That's what the Dems have done and continue to do to people of color.

    Illinois and Chicago have been run by the mob known as the Democrats for my entire life. For decades they have suggested we need to "help" people of color... decades later we have a similar outcome as before 1963 CRA.

    Time for a new approach...perhaps the Republicans can provide a plan, unlike the Democrat's CRA smoke and mirrors approach...a plan that will truly help people rise up and reach their potential...because handouts and entitlements are not the answer.

    And "out of the blocks" is a term used in track and field.

    "out of the blocks
    From a starting position, as in a race or contest: The company has in the past been slow out of the blocks to adapt to consumer tastes."
    aka starting blocks.

    A simple Google search could've answered that for ya fisch.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    If only I knew how to work the googles, SportsSportsSports. When you had use "hear" in place of "here", I made the (apparently incorrect) assumption that you misused an expression ("out of the blocks").

    It is completely laughable that you would believe that the GOP is going to provide a better plan involving the welfare of minorities.

    For the record: I do not recall saying that the Democrats have it all figured out. I do not even recall saying that I *AM* a Democrat. However, if we were to acknowledge the reality that we live in a 2-party system, sure - I'm on the left so call me a Dem.

    Mute: Glad to hear you don't think you have the solutions. Yes, crappy people exist - so do AWESOME people! I'm a bigger fan of spending my time with them. :)

  • Mute Mute Me

    "It is completely laughable that you would believe that the GOP is going to provide a better plan involving the welfare of minorities."

    Well depends on what you think will help the welfare of minorities. If you think placing the blame on everything but the person and crying victim helps minorities then the democrats win.

    If you think holding people responsible for their own choices and circumstances in life then the gop wins.

    Currently i see the democrats plan in action. I also dont see that plan working.

    " I do not even recall saying that I *AM* a Democrat"

    You didnt have to. You have made quite a few statements that give it away.

    "Why would you look forward to shooting someone"

    The good old democratic thought that everyone who owns a gun cant wait to shoot someone with it.

    "Looks like guns are doing awesome"

    Blaming guns not people.

    " this desire to cause harm to others that is being expressed by some in this thread. But... best of luck with your genocide!"

    Suggesting people who have guns or suggest people are the problem have a desire to cause harm or advocate genocide

    "how terrible would this nation be if everyone was limited to the right to own A handgun and A rifle and no more? But would it be a bad thing? I certainly don't think so."

    Thinking that taking away rights of law abiding citizens due to actions of non law abiding citizens is not a bad thing.

    These are just a few of your clues you gave. I could go on and on but eb didnt let me.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Glad you have me pegged. Best of luck in your perfect society.

  • Mute Mute Me

    "Best of luck in your perfect society."

    I know my perfect society doesnt exist. No luck needed.

  • I see that Fisch is falling for the shell game the Dems are playing. They are not the "party of the people" as they would have you believe. Neither party is working for us.

    However, I am with Mute when it comes to personal responsibility and less government...not to mention less government involvement in my life.

  • This shooting happened on Waveland, Thats not Portage Park that Belmont Craigen.

    Not that it matters but it still close.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Just in case it *does* matter, 5800 West Waveland block is still Portage Park according to Google's district map

  • Yeah i see it a few different ways depending on where you look. Just like the ward maps.

    https://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/doit/general/GIS/Chicago_Maps/Community_Areas/CA_PORTAGE_PARK.pdf

  • Mute Mute Me

    The stupid neighborhood classifications can be tricky. Some neighborhoods are sub neighborhoods of other neighborhoods. Not sure if this is the case here but they can technically be both neighborhoods. Ex. Ravenswood. It is a neighborhood within lincoln square. So technically an address in ravenswood i suppose can be called either. I forget which website i ran axross that confirmed this. Maybe ill look for it. I found it helpful in cases like this.

  • Mute Mute Me

    http://www.chicagohome.com/NHDetails.cfm?NH_ID=38

    Thats the site ive found to be most helpful with neighborhood classifications. I cant find belmont cragin on there though but it doesnt list any included neighb orhoods for portage park. But if you look up ravenswood youll see a couple different neighborhoods are included. I was first interested in this when i saw my parents tax bill for their house on seeley and wilson. The property taxes classified that hpuse as lakeview! Also neighborhood borders change and websites dont so sometimes its hard to determine technical boundaries as far as o can tell the 5800 block is portage park. But it really takes some investigation to kbow for sure.

  • Fisch Web Developer / Musician

    Gonzo, that PDF you shared shows the 5800 block of Waveland still in Portage Park as well. ;)

  • My bad, I was thinking of wellington.

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