Two 35-year-old women have been shot during a drive-by outside Mount Sinai Hospital on Saturday night. It happened about 8 p.m. in the 2700 block of West Ogden Avenue. The assailants were inside a dark-colored car that pulled up and began firing - hitting both women in the lower body area, police said.
Gi, right you are and a great post, by the way. Gun grabbers always blame the gun rather than the shooter. WHY? Reason, logic, and critical thinking are absent in those who believe that guns kill people rather than the person who loaded the gun, aimed the gun, and pulled the trigger. They don’t acknowledge that the real world isn’t the idyllic, fanciful utopia that they envision, but rather a dangerous arena where many perils might be encountered every day. The extent of their focus is limited to and fixed on one peril to the virtual exclusion of all others … the firearm. They cannot win the debate with facts and data, so they try to shame pro-gun advocates out of the fight, but underestimate the determination of their freedom loving adversary.
Whether they recognize it or nott, the anti-gun coalition are in bed with the criminal element who are in favor of gun control and gun bans because gun ownership creates a hostile work environment for them.
Gun grabbers have a carefully calibrated strategy to blame guns, gun owners and the 2nd amendment. Few talk about the monsters that are responsible for these tragedies and the culture that produces them. One narrative predominates … that the NRA is an evil organization whose members love their guns more than they do their children. The NRA is the only organization that gets blamed for crimes that its members do not commit.
Thanks, K in North Center. The problem is identifying (much less agreeing upon) “common sense gun laws.” I believe we have many - but they are not enforced.
Putting small, family-owned gun dealers in Illinois out of business by passing burdensome legislation and creating bureaucracy is not, in my mind, common sense. It is a salve so legislators can say, “Look, we did something.”
I agree that mass shootings get all the attention. It’s the issue-du-jour mentality. Like when all those steps were taking during the Ebola “scare” a few years ago while everyone in medicine knows that tens of thousands more people die of the flu every year.
There are other, deeper, perhaps more nefarious reasons that mass shootings get all the attention. But in any event, it is misdirected attention.
If we eliminated mass shootings, we’d eliminate less than 1% of gun-related deaths. If we eliminated suicide by gun, we’d eliminate 65% of gun-related deaths. (I know someone is going to use that as an argument to eliminate guns, but that is never going to happen; nor should it.)
I do so wish EB had a feature to fix typos. I’ve noted that in many of my posts I have inadvertently made some typos, including in this thread. Allow me to borrow the “argument” of the anti-gunner” to address that. It is not my fault. It is the keyboard’s fault ;^)
FACT: Mosquitoes are far more dangerous than firearms. According to the World Health Organization, several million people die from mosquito-borne diseases each year. According to NASA , mosquito-borne diseases kill 2.7 million people annually.
JimmyMac - I do not disparage NRA members. I believe they are overwhelmingly law-abiding, decent people.
But as an organization, it is completely tone-deaf and paranoid.
And with everything going on, they name Oliver North their new President? To me it’s akin to a CCL holder picking fights so he/she can use his gun. (I know a CCL holder wouldn’t do that; that’s my point.)
Duncan Smith, actually several deaths have occurred from West Nile virus in the state of Illinois since 2014. You will not ever hear me suggest that cars be banned even thought cars are responsible for far more deaths than guns. My take on that is this. The death toll from vehicles is much higher that that from firearms. We willing accept the inevitable loss of lives from vehicles but not from guns. The risk rewards paradigm applies to just about everything else, except guns. Why is that?
Duncan, bedeil is right. Gun violence is a wold-wide problem although it is understandable that we you think of it in geocentric terms because that is what you are exposed to and have to deal with. I could have mention other things that have caused a lot of deaths a bit closer to home, like 9/11 after which there was no push to ban airplanes.
At the risk of being berated mercilessly I will say this: The key to everything is education. Educated gun owners, educated car owners, etc. That's where some type of registration would come into play. Your hair dresser and barber must undergo continuing education once they become licensed, and they don't pose the same risk as a gun or car! I see bad drivers out there who could use a refresher course, and yes, Jimmy, cars kill more people than guns.Weapons are hot wired into the American DNA, along with cars, at this point. And yet, only one of them is registered. Why is that? Why is continuing education and monitoring a bad thing if it's interest of public safety? Don't come back with "it's a gang problem" because we both know it goes deeper than that.
Cars have one purpose, to transport people. Guns have two, to main and kill. Cars are also regulated with safety features, rules, licenses that aim to reduce loss of lives. Why we are on the facile comparisons, lets go ahead and ban old age as a killer. The simple fact here is the United States has a gun violence problem and there are many ways to tackle this problem and yes, even not involving taking away anyone's gun.
maryann. Your post could be taken as offensive, unless I missed the veering turn away from the original post... Luckily, I am thick-skinned.
Are educated gun owners doing drive-by shootings? Are you putting me and other gun owners in a class of law-breakers?
The educated gun owners of this state for example, are concealed carry permit holders, and are many, many, many times less likely to commit a crime than the next law-abiding citizen. That's right, statistically, I am less likely to commit a violent crime than YOU are. Perhaps you should require training?
but let's get back the OP....drive-by's, and other daily shootings by CRIMINALS.
Not the majority class of law-abiding gun owners, NOT NRA members, NOT conceal carry permit holders.
So why the suggestion for training? who? those of us that will NEVER have an occasion to break the law?
we aren't talking about them. We are talking about recidivistic scum who circulate in and out of the justice system.
Neighborhood Dad, there's nothing tongue in cheek about teaching them to be better shooters. Gang bangers are bad shots. Shooting a gun straight looks real easy on television - in real life, it's not. Beezil, I am not classifying you or anyone else. I'm stating a simple fact. Educate young people on how to argue without guns. Teach everyone better coping skills so that shooting someone is not the go-to solution. By the way, I have had training and because of it, I'm real accurate at firing a weapon :) No offense meant - no offense taken.
No, beezil. Train everyone, including gang bangers how to shoot straight. And while you have their attention, try to figure out why they see shooting someone as their first line of defense. That's what you missed.
maryann-on-giddings, I’ll not berate you but will, as a courtesy, make you aware of some fact sthat you may not be ware of. Illinois prohibits anyone from acquiring or possessing firearms or ammunition without a valid FOID card issued by the State Police. Firearm sales through an FFL, are already recorded by law. ATF Form 4473 Firearms Transaction Record is required to be filled out at time of purchase/transfer. The make, model and serial number of the firearm is recorded on the form. It precisely this form, the NICS (FBI background check) and record retention requirement that I find to be sufficient without registration and government. Even for private sales, the seller must verify the buyer's FOID card with the state police, receive a transfer approval number. Records must be maintained for 10 years.
maryann-on-giddings, I was remiss in not stating that criminals and gang bangers will not register a gun nor ore they even required The courts have rule that anyone who cannot legally own a firearm is not required to register since doing so would violate their 5th amendment right of self-incrimination.
So I guess we'll just leave things the way we are? We won't try to initiate any change to the status quo and just hope that we aren't at the wrong place at the wrong time? Quote all the laws and facts you want, but it doesn't change anything. Don't push for any kind of change and we'll be having this debate for years. In the meantime we'll keep ignoring the root of the problems - problems like irresponsible gun owners whose weapons end up in the hands of their children - and people who can't solve their problems with out shooting up something or someone. I guess some of you are comfortable with the status quo so your solution is to bring up laws that have been proven to be ineffective so far and invitations to join a comedy troupe. Have yourself a good day.
maryann-on-giddings, do you think those that fought for our freedom, authored and signed the declaration of independence and and bill of rights would favor registration? They knew better that to trust government. Although very unlikely here, registration has preceded confiscation elsewhere. Firearms are seldom found at crime scenes. When they are serial numbers are often abraded and those that are not are traced back to a legally purchase firearm that was stole. Registration will accomplish nothing and has been ruled against by the Supreme court. “Train everyone, including gang bangers how to shoot straight?” Do you actually think that training everyone including criminals, thugs, and gang bangers is a good idea. DO you think they will sign up? Wo will pay for the training?
marryann-on giddings There is no reason to accuse anyone of being willing to accept the status quo as the new normal. We all want have the same objective, this is to fix this problem as much as possible, but onerous gun regulation and bans should not be misconstrued as a workable solution. It has not worked wherever implemented. What evidence based solutions would you propose that would be effective?
Neighborhood Dad, I feel that you unfairly accuse the NRA of being tone-deaf and paranoid, effectively painting its entire membership with a broad brush. Pro-gun advocates could just as easily state the same of anti-gun advocates. There is a huge difference between the opposing sides. The NRA wants to preserve our 2nd amendment and the constitutionally guaranteed right contained therein and the other side (Mom’s, Everytown, etc.) want to revise or repeal the 2nd amendment, ban and confiscate firearms.
Neighborhood Dad. How often do you really think street guns are discarded and get run over by cars? Anyone who uses and values tools should take care of them so that they service the user well. I am one of those. I never abuse tools and my tools will last me a lifetime. If a gang banger has a gun that doe not function well, they will just acquire another.
As for guns, I’m not looking to debate this point. Guns getting run over by cars was one example. And there was an etc.
I fully understand that you take better care of your guns and other tools than gangbangers do. And that you would never damage a weapon or use a damaged weapon. Such would not be conducive to your purposes for using weapons.
Gangbangers are indiscriminate about a lot of things. They often use guns that are stolen, found, passed along, etc. I’m sure they don’t clean them and test them for accuracy at the range.
Neighbothood Dae, I know exactly what you wrote about NRA members being overwhelming law-abiding, decent people, and the ones I know are, but you also wrote that the NRA organization is tone deaf and paranoid. Give an objective ear to what the members of anti-gun advocate organizations have to say and report back what you think of them
The NRA is an organization which without members would not be an organization. By labeling the NRA deaf and paranoid, you are labeling its members deaf and paranoid. You can call it what ever you want, but you painted NRA members with a broad brush, no matter how you slice it. You did say that you dislike labels and indicated that labels add nothing to the conversation, did you not? Granted, not all members agree with everything the NRA does and that includes this lifetime benefactor member who put his money where his mouth is. Gun owners disavowing the NRA and renouncing membership is irrelevant to you remarks that you made as is the example of the American Bar association. You said what you said and every NRA member should take umbrage. I do! Deaf and paranoid are label that are more fitting for the likes o the Soros and Bllomberg bankrolled organizations. I am neither, but I am determined to stand my ground against those who use their 1st amendment right in an attempt to deprive me of my 2nd amendment right.
Neighborhood Dad, prudent choice since “etc.” does’t leave room for debate anyway. Just for the record, stolen guns are generally in good condition and shoot straight as oppose to you description of the commonly used gang banger gun. Guns are pretty durable and will last a long time with reasonable care and if not abused. How do you know so much about gang bangers and their guns? How well gang bangers they take care of their guns is not something about which I am well versed. Consequently, I will not emulate you and make attempt to make seemingly definitive statements about something I know little about. I could speak with authority only if I were a gang banger, but I’m not. This is what I find frustrating about conversing with those who are not well acquainted with the gun issue. It is reasonable to assume that a gang banger does not have an FOID card. Without an FOID card, and without having attained the age of 21, a gan banger would not be permitted on a range unless a guest of another FOID card holder 21 years or older. Now I ask yourself, what respectable FOID card holder would invite a gang banger as their guest at the range?
Duncan, cars even have more that one purpose … racing, collecting, etc. As concerns gun use, it appears that you conveniently or intentionally omitted hunting, target practice, competitive shooting, collecting, and protection/self-defense.