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Added Feb 13 2012

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-emanuel-speed-camera-records-20120212,0,1891436.story

And like clockwork our intrepid news reporters decide to look into a bill AFTER it's been passed. What do they find? Big surprise but there are lobbyists, secrecy, falsehoods and lies. My favorite part is Rahm reprimanding the newspaper because they won't publish a report proving how dangerous the city is. And then not actually releasing that same report because it's confidential. Now that's Chutzpah!

The thing that really turns me off with Rahm is his arrogance. He's all "I" this and "me" that, never we. It's all about what Rahm the petulant little boy King wants. Personally I didn't think I'd sour on him so fast but six months is enough of him in my opinion. Shudder to think but he almost makes me miss Daley.......Almost.

  • Cable Mail Lifetime Logan Square Resident

    Thanks Chris, truth well said!

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    The FBI dossier on Steve Jobs said he was always going around saying things not true.

    That seems to be a favorite passtime of many who can get airtime. Build up a whirlwind of spin...and in the end...it FAILS.

    We the public have to do something about this and stop tolerating it! Look how apathetic the voters registration is today!

  • ...the more you repeat a lie, the more it becomes the truth...
    "I am transparent, I am transparent, i am transparent". And at the same time manipulating the media and destroying and hiding the data.
    Sound familiar? It should. It is one of the mantras of every Chicago politician. Remember, Saul Alinsky was the original "community organizer" from Chicago.

  • Gordon 9-year Bucktown resident

    "The FBI dossier on Steve Jobs said he was always going around saying things not true."

    Ironically, this statement is not true. If you actually read the report, one unnamed person said that he would occasionally "twist the truth." Not the same thing as "always saying things not true."

    But back on topic, Orwell famously wrote "He who controls the past, controls the future." Statistics are just a way of controlling the past. Nothing new here, this is how society works.

  • Steven Vance Urban planner

    It is not true that the Chicago Tribune went looking for details after Governor Quinn signed legislation allowing Chicago to implement a speed camera enforcement system.

    They were requesting more details from the Mayor's Office since at least October 2011 when they first sent a request for emails between city staff members.
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-02-12/news/ct-met-emanuel-speed-camera-records-20120212_1_speed-camera-red-light-cameras-mayor-rahm-emanuel
    (be sure to check out the graphic, "public records dance")

    Also, the Tribune requested the report that the mayor kept touting, but then refused to turn it over, citing parts of it as confidential. You can read on Grid Chicago the best excerpts from their interview last week with the mayor:
    http://gridchicago.com/2012/mayors-comments-to-chicago-tribune-about-speed-cameras/

    You can read all of the Tribune's past coverage on the topic starting with this search:
    http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=site:chicagotribune.com+speed+camera

    And there's Grid Chicago's coverage of speed camera enforcement:
    http://gridchicago.com/tag/speed-cameras/

  • I emailed Alderman Moreno about this issue, with my position saying that it's obviously a cash grab, and not about safety. His response:

    "They need to prove to me that it's about safety.

    Thanks for contacting me. "

    FYI I guess.

  • Steven Vance Urban planner

    @Eric: That's exactly what Moreno said to me, over Twitter, when I asked him if he supported speed cameras.

    Search for "Moreno" here for the link:
    http://gridchicago.com/2012/what-speed-camera-legislation-means-for-chicago/

  • L

    Last night Waguespack told SLVN that he is against them too.

  • There's absolutely nothing in that article that couldn't have been reported before the bill was signed. They could have reported at anytime that the Mayor was refusing to release information that could support his claims, they didn't.

    Forget about Moreno, he says the right things but he'll sign off like almost every other alderman. If Waguespack says he won't support them he won't. He's one of the few elected representative that looks out for our best interests. If we had more Waguespacks in office the city would be much better off.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Did everyone see the news just out? 1500 Chicago/Illinois politicians convicted for corruption!

  • any such name live, walk, & cook in logan square

    A good analysis of the mayor vs. the Tribune about this whole thing:
    http://gapersblock.com/mechanics/2012/02/14/tk/

  • gpblight,

    The headline for that news was "Chicago is the most corrupt city in America". Not a big surprise for the people that live here.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    That is why it is IMPORTANT that we OUT the corruption. There is a direct correlation between the gripes on EB about LACK OF SERVICE and Corruption.

    If one does a foia for service at a location; and a range of years...it is likely that the 311 or the service request is marked COMPLETE or NO PROBLEM.

    This means that MANAGEMENT did not follow up to be sure the task was completed. This means that 311 has no internal check when orders are ordered multiple times for the same location and event. This means that the DEPARTMENT has no internal check for whether a task was ordered multiple times.

    This is 4-5 failures.

    311, 911, Department, Alderman, Budget, Comptroller....All of them should have internal controls that would catch this FAILURE to provide service...whilst paying union feet on the ground time and time and time and time and time again.

    The Inspector General, Ig for Aldermen, Civilian Review Board, Police Board, Comptroller...all need to ramp up forensic audits. Follow the money trail.

    This is why taxes are so high and service is so poor.

    Our best civic duty is to OUT these lack of service and hold everyone along the chain responsible. It will also make our neighborhood cleaner, and more livable.

    Everyone forgets here...it is a myriad of departments that are involved in providing us service.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    This is not surprising considering who People vote into office here . It is a result of one party rule where the ruling elite know the people will always vote for them no matter how corrupt they are . This is a straight up revenue grab and Union people and the Permanent Victim / Entitlement class wiil always vote for these Bozo's . It is also the reason productive Tax Payers are fed up . They know it isn't going to change in The Progressive Wonderland that is Chicago , so they are leaving and taking their Jobs with them . @ Glen Brettner .....YOU ARE RIGHT ON

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    We should all thank our Mayo / Sith Emperor ...At least he has some ethics . He often has said that " he wasn't going to Nickel and Dime the Tax Payers of Chicago as they had been Taxed Enough Already " ( Ironic choice of words ) . Unlike a lot of Rulers of his Party he kept his pledge and like a good Thief er Dem when he picks your pockets he skips right past those Nickels and Dimes and steals those C notes from you .. Now that is Professional and he didn't Lie . Enjoy your automatic debits from the Party ..You get what you vote for

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Once residents have the "voila" "lightbulb" experience and get made enough...they can learn to dig in their heels and fight the system and get JUSTICE.

    JUSTICE is on our side. We just need to learn to fight the ""papertrail" way!

    Holding people accountable for their job is the way of life in the free market system we have. BUT government doesn't fundtion that way. It has a separate accountablity status through GOVERNMENTAL accounting tax law.

    We need to examine their books, make sure there isn't fraud...and hold them accountable. WASTE is rampant through Chicago. Why? Many are protected classifications because their unions yield so much clout.

    It is the Union against the TAXPAYER...Officials cater to the one with the loudest VOTE VOICE.

    But...thank goodness numbers prevail! If only the non-voters would rise up! There are MORE non-voters than union voters.

    PS this is not an anti union statement or sentiment. It is based on what goes on on my block and throughout EGP from personal experience.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Couldn't have said it better myself . The Gov't Union and Dem money Laundering scheme is being exposed up in Wisconsin . It is the reason the Dems and Unions are punping approx 70 mil into a recall up there . They know the longer Gov Walker takes on the Unions the worse they look . He has taken a State with a 3 bil budget deficit and now has a 300 mil budget surplus . In the City of Milwaukee they were able to COMPETITIVELY bid out the Teachers Unions Health care plan . it had been going to a favored Insurer who donated heavily to the Union and to to the Dem Party . This bidding process yeilded an insurer with a better plan at a savings of 34 mil . You know what they did with the savings ...yeppers hired more teachers In fact Gov Walker has brougjt 29 to 42,000 new jobs to that state while showing Common sense and sticking up for the Tax Payer up there .They did all that without raising taxes . Contrast that with what goes on in Illinois where Quinn passed a 66% tax Increase and a 45 % corp tax Increase . They said it was to rein in the Public Union pension debt but didnt even address that . In fact they Increased spending . Illinois now has the Largest pension debt per capita in the U. S. That number is about 80 bil . He wants to borrow more money to placate Union pensions now , even though the rating houses have downgraded Illionois Credit rating lower then IRAQ . This means we pay higher interesr to pay back the money Quinn wants to borrow .Since the Tax increase Il has lost over 61,000 jobs as Businesses vote with their feet . We have had Tax Increases on a State County and City level as all three struggle to find a way to pay for their UInion support on the backs of Tax Payers .Whsle Quinn and Rahm raise Taxes and debt we are Laying off tteachers here . This is the reason Rahm is creating all these fees and new revenue streams like Speed cameras. They have to pay those Unions for all that lovely support they supply as Loyal comrades

  • Lee C Lakeview resident, LVCC board member

    I trust the Mayor more than I would trust the Tribune. The Gapers Block article 'any such name' links to above gets this one right.

    And regarding the safety data -- it's loud and clear. An analysis of more than 90 studies assessing speed enforcement cameras in the Journal of the Transportation Research Board found an average injury crash reduction of 20 to 25 percent, with more effective programs reducing crashes by more than 50 percent: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa09028/47.htm .

    There's no excuse for putting others' lives in danger on our streets by speeding. And as a taxpayer, I refuse to pay for more police to catch scofflaw motorists, when there's technology that can not only provide better enforcement but can also be paid for by the law-breakers and will fund additional safety improvements for our streets.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    @ Lee C ...wow you trust the Mayor ? did you grow up in Chicago ? I will just say that with every break through in Technology comes a redundant level of Beauracracy . This will cost more to implement then it's worth , but that's Ok as long as they can get into our Pockets . It isn't a Traffic safety issue either . If it were you would be hearing stories on the news about the mass epidemic of traffic fatalities in and around Schools . Have you heard any of those lately ? School zones are pretty safe with Traffic guards and Speed bumps already ..I'll bet they take those Speed Bumps out now so paople can speed and get tickets .

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    If the city really cared about school kids, especially those on the west side...they would ENFORCE SAFE SCHOOL ZONE LAWS.

    I bet there were less than SSZ arrests in the entire 28th ward during the last year.

    Drug dealers operate on the same sidewalks that moms walk their kids to school on. They hide drugs all over parkways, roundabouts, curbs, sewers, dumpsters etc.

    The city doesn't even vacuum up those drugs off the street which would be a VERY EASY THING TO DO.

    Get the sniffing dogs...get the sewer vacuum. JOB DONE. Drugs destroyed on the spot.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    BIKE JEDI: You are wrong about the cost/revenue. The city will hire a contractor to install and run the system, so they wont have to buy it. (Of course contract will go to a connected company, with approriate political donations made afterwards.) And the revenue stream will be huge. Minimal wages/benefits because its all automated. chah-CHING! Thats why Rahm wants it. And, if you think this automated ticket system will stop here..... Soon there will be robo-tickets in cars, "catching" parking violations, too much refuse in the alley, sidewalks not shoveled, etc etc. The taxing.....uuum sorry, TICKETING system has endless applications to increase revenue.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    LEE C: there is no need to pay for more cops to enforce traffic laws. Our 40 year old drug war is a miserable failure. One of the huge social costs has been the siphoning of police from other duties...like traffic enforcement. When you see speeders, blown stop lights, and aggressive driving, think of all our police chasing down those 15 year old dealers and users.

    Of course, we could change drug prohibition to drug regulation, and enjoy the same successes we do with our alcohol social policies. But that would be too easy. Much better to automate justice, and keep fighting the war. George Orwell is laughing in his grave.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    If they wanted to SLOW PEOPLE DOWN they could put up that signage that shows your speed as you approach and pass. I see them in Oak Park. I see them also in Oak Park at temporary locations.

    So, lets not kid ourselves and let the spin continue. Cameras are for REVENUE. Maybe citizens could unite like the shopping mall /business owners did in Schaumberg! The Schaumberg crowd got the ticketing cameras removed.

    One can say that CHICAGO is becoming a CAR UNFRIENDLY CITY. This makes no sense at all. Stickers make revenue...HUGE GAS TAXmakes boo koo revenue. Bycyclists don't. Do they pay for a bike License?

    Are the taxes on gas at the pump 1/3 or 1/2 of the pump price? Does anyone know? If so...please tell.

    Illinois politicians have a LONG HISTORY of deceiving the public...Where is the Lottery $$? Where is the electric savings because of nuclear? My life is so long that a $3.52 bill has soared to $75 in say 20 years. Where is the nuclear savings??? War on Drugs, War on Poverty, No Child left behind....we have LOTS AND LOTS of failed programs.

    Chicago people need to solve these problems the FASTEST way possible. We can't depend on the politicans to lead us or save us. Chicago...1/3 SMALLER than it was before!

  • Lee C Lakeview resident, LVCC board member

    "One can say that CHICAGO is becoming a CAR UNFRIENDLY CITY. This makes no sense at all. Stickers make revenue...HUGE GAS TAXmakes boo koo revenue. Bycyclists don't. Do they pay for a bike License?"

    It's a common myth that gas tax and vehicle fees pay for roads. In fact, that doesn't come even close to covering the cost. Roads are heavily subsidized by all tax-payers, even those who don't drive. It's a great deal and incredibly car-friendly. The IL state gas tax is 19 cents and hasn't been raised in 22 years, and the federal gas tax is 18.4 cents, and hasn't been raised in 20 years. So it's around 1/10 of the pump price. Gax taxes at 1/3 of the pump price would be far more appropriate.

    The gax tax needs to be raised much much higher, not just to keep up with inflation, but to cover the real costs of driving -- or better yet, eliminate the gas tax, set up a tolling system for *all* roads and let the free market take over.

    As far as bicyclists -- yes, actually most of them do pay for vehicle stickers, licenses and gas tax. It is in fact possible to own both a bicycle and a car.

    Here's a great report from Wisconsin on who pays for roads -- it's the same story in Illinois: http://ssti.us/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/WI_Road%20costs%20report.pdf

    And the gas tax and vehicle fees certainly don't cover the costs of the injuries and deaths caused by speeding drivers.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    LEE C: Excellent points. You forgot to mention that, after adding in the high Chicago fuel taxes, it give this city one of the highest gas taxes in America. And that STILL doesnt cover the roadway costs. Europe has a good system. Their gas taxes are high.... because they fairly cover the actual costs of the roads. And thats why public transit is so much better in Europe...it forces people to make realistic economic decisions. Here, people think cars are a RIGHT, not a responsibility.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    There are ALOT more taxes on gas than listed here.
    Add sales tax, RTA tax, excise tax, environmental, storage, use....and I will figure out what the others are.

    There is no inference here that GAS taxes are SUPPOSED to pay for roads.

    The point is that a gallon of gas price includes ALOT of taxes that other items do not pay. If you add the pecentages of ALL taxes paid it is alot of taxes. 11% sales tax is the LARGEST in the nation...

    Multiply the total tax rate for all taxes times the total gallons of gas sold in Chicago...and it is a HUGE amount of $$. No other target user pays as much TOTAL TAXES as taxes on a gallon of gas. I could be wrong...maybe LIQUOR AND CIGARETTE taxes might be at a higer percentage of sales price. Smokes are what? $8 a pack now?

    Are there any CPAs reading...can you help us figure this out?

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    I would suggest that gas taxes should be enough to cover roadway costs. Otherwise it means roadway users are being subsidized. Which would explain why almost everyone driving during rush hour has only one person in the car. And mass transit is hugely underfunded. I would argue this is the opposite of what is economically and environmentally good for society.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Actually we should QUESTION these HUMONGOUS numbers that it takes to get things done. The OBAMA road stimulous project was a JOKE around here.

    At Walnut/Kedzie they dug a hole in the middle of the intersecftion and left it that way for almost 2 years.

    The Ogden work east of Ashland took almost 2 years too. It looked like all they did was change a meridian.

    We spend millions and millions on project that should be done for significantlyless.

    Millinium park was almost 900mil for 1 block????

    The resale of block 37 downtown multiple times had a sticker price of almost 1 trillion. What did the taxpayer get 20 years ago? $200,000. Lets see 1trillion (for failed developers_ -$200,000 (taxpayer share)= almost 1trillion for FAILED PROJECTS. Did each failed developer walk out with millions? It would appear so)

    We need to WAKE UP and send people to jail who arrange deals like that.

    I think the 400mil hole in the bottom of the building where block 37 sits...is in addition to the 1trillion0$200,000 loss.

    I think if we wipe out the insider cost...projects should cost significantly less for the taxpayer (ie US).

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    We paid .50 less per gallon in Indiana yesterday ($3.35) - Our friends - who won at the casino - were using the money to pay $400 for two sets of Indians license plates - we're all doomed

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Gas was $3.37 in Melrose park Costco where the old kiddie land use to be TODAY.

    Yes we live in interesting times :-)

  • 1800 hundred intersections, repeat 1800 hundred intersections. My blood pressure is boiling so high I don't know what to say. I can't even vote against the damn legislatures who ok'ed this because mine our running unopposed in the primary. There's been no discussion about this, no public hearings, its just another money grab that's been slammed down our throats. When everybody wakes up and realizes what just happened I hope the blowback on this throws them all out of office.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    THanks for the warning about Rahm's robo-tickets.

  • Here's a fun suggestion if this passes city council: Just drive 15MPH wherever you go. Even if it's not a speed camera zone (and we all know these are going to be very well marked, right?!)

    If we all do it, I guarantee that we will hold up traffic so badly that some high-roller will realize that we're tired of pay-to-play in this city. After all, we're just slowing down to make the children more safe, right?

  • Maybe we can all drive to Rahm's hood and have a drive-in sit-in. Just clog up the streets and turn off the engines. Show Mr 1% what it's like to screw up traffic.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Meet the new Boss...Same as the old Boss . This is a straight up revenue grab by a ruler who got voted in becuase of his ability to raise funds in Ca . and the gullability of Chicago' Sheeple voting Populace . Couple that with Rahm's favored status as one of Obama's peeps and the Sheeple stampeded to the polls . Ever been caught in a Sheeple stampede ? Taint a pretty sight . NowRahm has gotten elected and when a member of the News media goes off the Liberal plantation( ala Mary Ann Ahern ) and asks a Question. She gets blacklisted by Rahm . Gee ,where did he learn that arrogant tactic in dealing with the media and Chicago's citizenry ? At who's knee did he learn that ? . In my own defense I didn't vote for this Criminal who should've probably been indicted in the Blago thing . He only wanted the Mayors job so he can rule Chicago and for what Chicago can do for him . He has a mountain of Public Union pension debt and instead of addressing the imbalance in what they get as Pensions and what we the average Tax Payer gets is appalling . How many of you get a Pension ? Didn't think so . Anyway , as I was saying he has a Mountain of Pension debt and you have to pay it for him dammit .

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Some people say if all these kids are getting run down why don't the Police just enforce the speeding laws by Schools . There are always cops by Schools when kids are entering and leaving ..I think the answer would be that those Police are there to prevent the real safety issue facing school children .Gang bangers shootin up the hood . .Anyway think about it like this . Plenty of people speed on the expressway . Some get tickets . That doesn't stop the behavior .Your Dems arent trying to stop the behavior , rather they are looking to profit from it . oh , and then pass on the money to their donors ....No this is a brilliant Job of making up a false problem ( kids getting run down by schools ) and profitting from the behavior of drivers . If they want to prevent the behavior they could just put in more Speed humps . That would be cheaper and more effective . That isn't the way the DEM party operates ..If they did that , they couldn't steal more money from us . No lets put up more camera's and let one of Rahms Political donors and Sponsors get millions to manage the thing ..Where did he learn that from ?Obama and Solyndra come to mind . Wake up Sheeple you get what you voted for . Unfortunately for the rest of us , we live here too . Judging by how many people and Jobs ( 61,000 in the year since Quinns Tax Hike ) are leaving . Those Business owners know the Sheep are going to vote for their peeps . They know this isn't going to change . They that can , are picking up and moving to Wisconsin where they have a real " Progressive Movement " ( 42,000 jobs since Walker took on the Unions ) and they are leaving for Indiana . Those States say thank you to Illinois Indoctrinated voters and their DEM RULERS . meanwhile your Rulers laugh at their flock , and give you the finger while taking your money . I hope you realize that .. The Flock will probably disagree with this out of Loyalty to their DEMS . I grew up here as a DEM , I don't vote that way anymore.

  • And the other shoe drops:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-13/news/ct-met-resolute-emanuel-speed-cameras-20120313_1_speed-cameras-greg-goldner-red-light-cameras

    Big surprise, Rahm's money guy is a lobbyist for the company that stands to make millions off of the speed cameras. Looks like he backed Daley too. Birds of a feather.............

    Bike Jedi, I'm a Democrat and proud of it and calling any of those crooks a Democrat is insulting. They're DINO's. They're beholden to the color green (money). Red and Blue are just distractions they use to keep us off guard so they can enrich themselves and their friends with our tax dollars. Fact is I haven't seen a true Democrat in this town in a long time. I might have to start putting missing posters up.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    BIKE JEDI: Im all for injecting efficiency, effectiveness and fairness in public policy. But there is no way Im going to believe the Republicans are somehow immune from problems, especially after 8 yrs of Bush. So how about trying to keep this thread about speed cameras and not about Dem bashing. But if you really need to, then please start a "I hate all Dems" thread.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Forget about Party Affiliations. Look at the data. Chicago is 1/3 smaller than 35 years ago. More than ONE MILLION have left because of living conditions in the city.

    If we make a list of the BIG ways and SMALL ways...Chicago is deficient...we can all contribute at least 10 grumbles...that are ALL TRUE.

    Think about more insanity. Some neighborhoods are 75% empty...why would we need a bike path? Seems bike paths should be layed down in areas where people RIDE BIKES. The build it and they will come...is proving to be another western falacy.

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    How about going back to..........horse and carriages?

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    @ Chris M . I went off just a little bit there . The basic premise is true however . Feel free to be proud to be a Democrat . I once was too . That was back when Kennedy said . Ask not what your Country can do for you but what you can do for your Country. Todays Party is nothing like that . The Basic premise is to secure Union support at the expense of tax Payers and to sate others with entitlements and Social programs . All of this being funded by Tax Payers . I don't think you will find a kennedy style Democrat anywhere except for Some people who still vote Democrat . The Rulers I believe have shifted the Party Ideology full Left Liberal . It's a style and pattern that has not worked anywhere in History . We can see it on display in Greece . You are all free to think the way you want ( for now ) . If they have their way I predict a Greece like future for America ..Of course if the left and their media are in charge they will still blame Bush ..You said there are no real Democrats in Chicago ..so why are all these people voting like indoctrinated loyalist's ? . And before I go any further , I apologize for using the Sheeple term it was meant to illustrate but it is a generalization ..

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    @ Alex . I would say Bush was more efficient then our current regime, and his Gov't was a lot smaller . By any objective performance factor we are in a much worse position since 2008 . Most of the States that are attracting Jobs and Productive Tax Paying CITIZENS ..Notice the emphasis on CITIZENS are Right to work States run by Republican administrations . Feel free to be a DEM loyaalist all you want but their High taxation and Increased Regulation on Businesses are chasing Opportunity out of their States . Feel free to blame Bush and say you saw 8 yrs of that . But there was not this level of corruption and pandering under Bush . I'm not a Bush backer either by the way , just saying . I don't think either party is perfect and they both have scumbags . My post was an attempt to show that if you don't like the Speed Camera's this is how and why we are seeing these new revenue streams created . It is precisely Because of our City's debt caused byunfunded /underfunded Public Pensions and the" Party's " Loyalty to these Unions , that creates the dynamic where all this(speed cameras etc ) is the result . Yes it was a rant . I can't help it if the people who rule us here are all Dems . If they were Rep doing this here I would be just as mad at them . Once again the rant was designed to show why and how we got to this Speed Camera point in history ,Did anyone see the story in the Trib where the Rahm Regime has admitted to using false info to justify this Revenue theft ?

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    I have to say that Bike Jedi is correct in a Greece like future for this country........politics in this country needs a cleansing, too much has been based on greed and how some in charge are content in keeping it that way and just passing the cashcow (THAT BEING, US VOTERS) on to the next ruler who could care less......I didn't vote for Emanual and I won't vote for anyone that is part of his circle or the former mayors.......

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    gerigirl is right ..and if this current trend of Social Programs and Entitlement spending keeps up....If the borrowing keeps up ...if the debt keeps up ....We will be Greece and at least some of us can see that . We will be able to say I told you so , but that won't help our Country .. The other people who chose to ignore all the historical precedent showing us what will happen , or are sated on entitlements will riot and say... you can't take my free stuff away . These are the reasons we have Speed Cameras . In the near future lets see if more or fewer Suburbanites come to Chicago for a night out once they experience this type of theft ? I'm betting we will see less vistors and loss of revenue Ciity wide as people become hip to the tip . I predict , those that can will get fed up and move . The last two census bare me out . These people that are leaving are Productive Tax Payers . When we lose the revenue from these people they will have to dream up new revenue streams on the remaining , and fewer Tax Payers here to compensate . It has been an ongoing trend for years , yet people want to worry about what party is doing it and defend those people . The fact is people vote Dem here and this is what they are giving us and those indoctrinated Loyalist won't try anything else ...because ...well...because ...it's all Bush's fault and those evil republicans ..we can't vote for them ....And this is how and why we are here . Like speed camera's and new fees and taxes?. Vote Dem . Don't like this ? Lets find someone like Daniels or Walker ..I don't care what party they hail from but until the Public Pension situation is addressed we will all continue to face speed cameras . These cameras are based on phony data ( Just like they do it in Washington ) it is not about safety . If it were about safety just put in speed humps . It is a Straight revenue grab and all the people who vote one way for whatever reason are responsible . You elected an idiot who doesn't care

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    RIGHT.......What's it going to take......they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and then wait a little.....then move on to the next fleecing of tax payers, it needs to end......because it is destroying this city in so many ways......

  • I tend to come down against things like red light and speeding cameras, and camera surveillance generally except in well-defined situations, not as a blank check, but here is some food for thought. They are a good group.

    http://www.activetrans.org/blog/rburke/tribune-continues-omit-compelling-data-speed-cameras

  • I knew eventually somebody would blame Bush. The Mayor of Chicago has been a Democrat since before anyone on this ite was born; there are 50 aldermen in Chicago and EVERY Single one of them is a Democrat; the Cook County Board has been Democratically controlled for over 50 years; Illinois has voted Democrat in presidential elections since the Cook County Dems stole the election for JFK by having dead people vote for him.

    I don't care how you feel about abortion, gay marriage, church vs state, gun control, immigration - When it comes to Chicago having problems with money, schools, crime, corruption, population decline, over-taxing, etc the buck stops with one party - the Democrats.

    This thread is about the fleecing of Chicago taxpayers and the dis-honest way that these cameras are being shoved down the taxpayers throat. Lets stay on topic, which is local, not national.

  • EveryBlock Becca Director of Community Management

    "Lets stay on topic, which is local, not national."

    Thanks for posting this reminder, Glenn.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Chicago is certainly a DEMOCRATIC stronghold for about 50 years. EVERY GOOD THING and EVERY BAD THING...was done by the Democratic Party....

    No one else to blame for loosing is it 1.2 mil or about 1/3 or the Chicago city limits head count (population)?

    What does this mean? Everyone needs to do some introspection and THINK their way out of this problem and VOTE their conscious...at the next election.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    GLEN BRETTNER is right. We should get rid of all the democrats and get George Bush & friends to run the city of chicago. Then all corruption and dishonesty would go away. Thanks for your helpful suggestion.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Alex I agree . Lets get Bush & friends ..Look at Texas as opposed to Illinois ..I rest my case ...Good sugestion Alex. Meanwhile Mitch Daniels over in Indiana announced today the the State would be refunding Tax Payers money back to them since they have a Budget surplus . Why do they have a Budget surplus . Sane and ethical Govt and they are attracting Jobs and Productive Tax Payers . This will now be magnified because they are now a right to work state . They don't pander to their party elites who work in Public Unions . What would Illinois do if they had a Budget surplus ...SPEND ALL OF IT ON A USELESS PROGRAM . They would do this to payback a Party fundraiser .Glen said it right and the truth hurts Loyalists .gpblight mentioned the Dems are responsible for all the good things as well as the bad . Maybe if we elected ethical people like Daniels we would get only good things ,eliminate bad things ,and budget surplusses .I don't care if they are Dem Rep or Martian , they just need to be ethical . The only problem with this is that you can't find ethical Dems here . The only solution is to vote them out and vote in people that will act fiscallty responsible . Then you won't need revenue streams , Camera's and blatant and unbridled theft of the populace

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    AMEN......BIKE JEDI.....AMEN!

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Actually...it is the WASTE that kills us. Employing union people who these days can come out 17 times to do the same job is the issue in EGP. 17 seems to be a bingo number. The old software must not have sent up a red flag unless it hit 17.

    There is no accountability for efficiency. Jobs just get ordered over and over and over on 311. Same goes for Police...Falsifying work orders and reports seems to be the main CHICAGO WAY.

    This epidemic of redundancy in paperwork is no different than the fraudulent loan system that collapsed the world financial system. Enough bad paper (fraudulent work orders) collapsed the Chicago Budget.

    That is why it is important for us the TAXPAYER to BONK the person who comes out to do a job...and slacks. Just look at the myriad of work projects on the streets. They can put all that construction parapernalia out on the streets for years...and work just a couple days. What is that all about? It for sure isn't stimulous...it is WASTE.

    Our civic responsibility is FAR GREATER than voting. It is reporting the WASTE and CORRUPTION that our system is rife with.

    Dems and Repubs and Martians...can all work together peacefully on that task. Maybe we could coin it the nit pik brigade.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Louise . They also have a budget surplus thanks to Illinois and our taxation chasing Jobs to that State . They are doing something Illinois dems would never do . They are refunding that surplus money back to the Tax payers . That will furhter spur their economy . Would our Dems EVER do that ? You can pick any State and there will be issues but Illinois has been ranked the most corrupt gov't in America by a Study done in Illinois . All I can say is , you can't seriously think you can compare our Rulers to their more ethical elected servants ...can you ????

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Like trying to compare apples and oranges....We as the most corrupt... TRUMP Indiana.....and remain the most disgraceful State in the Country........with NO equal.....Well put ....Bike Jedi!

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    We each need to do better on OUR BLOCK....

  • Inactive user

    i'm all for enforcing speed limits on surface streets in the city. This speed-mongering mentality has gotten totally out of control in Chicago. The sheer sense of entitlement of drivers to go 40+ MPH everywhere has made it very unfriendly to everyone using the roads who isn't in a padded, armored SUV with wall-to-wall airbags.

    Heck, if you actually go the speed limit in the city you will become the target of honking and aggressive passes either on the right in the bike/parking/left-turn-only lanes or they will cross the double yellow and into oncoming traffic to get around you and fill in that 1 second interval you dared open up between you and the car in front of you.

    Reckless, inpatient, rude, and selfish speeding entitled drivers who feel the death-defying need to shave 38 seconds off of their commute needs to be deal with.

    But that all said I DO NOT SUPPORT this LAZ crony-capitalist kickback camera scheme.

  • Inactive user

    There has to be something else that can be done. If there is going to be speed enforcement I want it to be done with real humans with radar and pacing cars making human decisions. Not some camera run by some big corporate interest with the bottom line aimed at maximizing profits instead of maximizing safety and the real goal of bring down speeds on our public surface streets.

    If this is too much for over-worked cops in chicago then maybe we need to make a new position for a glorified meter-reader type position that only gives speeding tickets. Not a real cop -but a traffic cop whose sole job is to make decisions about who is being a jerk and driving too fast. I have no problem with pricing the tickets not to create revenue but to pay for the salary of these new cops and the equipment they are need to do the job. If that means higher fines and a steep increase for repeat offenders who just refuse to slow down after multiple tickets in the same year. $1000-2000 tickets for the 3rd offense in a year does not seem excessive to me.

    Call me radical but I don't have a problem with this.

    But I DO have a problem with these BS corporate LAZ cams. Didn't we learn our lesson with the parking meters? Is Chicago THAT STUPID to make this whole mistake again????

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Don't BONK ME-the best way to protect Chicago school children...especially those in high crime/gang infested/drug dealing neighborhoods is for the POLICE TO ENFORCE THE SAFE SCHOOL ZONE LAWS!

    Kids aren't being killed by cars...they are being killed by gangbangers...on MY BLOCK!

    A kid was hit in the head with a baseball bat...and hospitalized for 5 days...and cpd did NOT PICK up the culprit despite his mom living on a Section 8 (Federally funded) property and it is ILLEGAL for him to be there.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    gpblight ...couldn't agree more . There has been no outbreak of kids getting run over . they are way more likely to be caught in gang crossfire . Maybe we should have gang banger cams. Give those people tickets and deport the Illegal gang bangers on the freaking spot . You want revenue... charge the Illegal gang bangers a transportation tax for their flight home . the citizen banger through their ass in Jail

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    It's all about.......TARGET AUDIANCE.....1000's of parents who think this is a wonderful thing........decreed by a caring and loving Mayor.......TRAFFIC CAMERAS........Hated by all drivers who fly down the streets with little regard for speed limits or human life and hate the Mayor for installing them. He now has the next election vote of all parents in his pocket.....it's all about..... REVENUE & VOTES.....not just REVENUE!

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    I totally agree with JAMES. I would also add that police might actually find time to enforce traffic laws if they were not wasting most of their resources fighting a failed drug war. This automation of ticketing is just one of the many social costs of the never-ending, 30-year-old war on drugs. And GPBLIGHT is also thinking straight. He is actually looking at what is killing the kids, and not at the BS cited to support a new revenue stream. Facts and reason seem to be a luxury in social policy.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    BIKE JEDI: Youve convinced me of the merits of Indiana. In fact, Im now thinking of moving away from Chicago.....to beautiful downtown Gary!

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Did u see our video? youtube.com, search: east garfield park, camera 398. All this goes on under a police camera and a SAFE SCHOOL ZONE sign which ups the charges for gang/drug activity in SCHOOL AREAS.

    Let us know what you think about the video. Post a comment if you feel like it. Pass this video around.

    This is the SHAME of CHICAGO who focuses on pleasing TOURISTS and lets CHICAGO NEIGHBORHOODS become so dangerous no decent person wants to live in them.

    School kids are not safe walking the streets of East Garfield Park on my block and on many blocks.

    This police camera has not helped residents since it was installed several years ago. This also shows a police camera means diddle squat. These are civil rights issues.

    This went on for 5 nights! Cries for help were not answered. No one was arrested...which needs conviction.

    Everyone in City Hall has received photos for YEARS about the gang activity at this intersection.

    This family needs HELP and EB people can HELP them!

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    @ Alex ..be sure to drive by the Jacksons house ..I would think Hobart might be better but I see what you are driving at ...

  • There are way too many topics brought up in this thread which about the city using false data to force speed cameras down our throats. But for the sake of discussion I'll throw my thoughts into the ring.

    1. Indiana is not an example of anything other than a place I don't want to live.
    2. Talk to me in June and we'll see if Wisconsin is still a right wing Utopia.
    3. The 200K people who left the city in the last decade are primarily black (180K+) and Black flight is mirroring White flight from from the 60's.
    4. The poverty, empty lots and decaying neighborhoods on the West and South sides are the result of institutional racism and in 60+ years the City has yet to do anything about it.
    5. If the City truly cared about protecting children, STOP THEM FROM BEING SHOT!
    6. Parents drive too, Speed cameras are about MONEY nothing more.
    7. It's impossible for the U.S. to ever be Greece. We can borrow and print money which because of the Euro Greece cannot, hence we can NEVER default. Unless one party plays politics with the debt limit........
    8. Republicans are crazy and Dems are corrupt. As unappealing a choice as it sounds I'll stick with corrupt, thank the lord for Pat Fitzgerald. Crazy is as crazy does.
    9. Liberals don't exist anymore, they're myth that the right likes to toss around to scare white people into voting Republican.
    10. Blagojevich was a closet Republican (remember who named the Reagan Tollway). He admitted as much and thanks to our one party rule in Chicago had to run as a Democrat.
    11. Red or Blue our elected officials make decisions based on what's best for their "benefactors" not what's best for the voters.

    Now can be get back on topic? ;)

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    I think THAT IS THE TOPIC. Speed cameras are cover for what????

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Chris M ...1 So you don't like Indiana ...However more and more Illinoisians do 2 The only way Walker loses is if Dem Activist Judges suspend Voter ID and the Dems steal the election through Vote Fraud . The activist Judge who openly works for the recall has done just that and it will only push Voter ID back until after the election . The Unions and Soro's have already puimped 30 mil up there in the 1st recall of state reps and lost , so I think that bodes well for common sense . 3 When White flight happened those people were back filled with others we didn't lose overall population . We are now ,and it's costing us productive Tax Payers and lowering the pool of people the Dems here , can tax . Hence the need for new Revenue Streams 4 Who do you blame for the "institutional racism " and why do you people insist on using and seeing race . If we truely are living in a Post Racial Liberal Obama Utopia why is the race card still played ? Anyway the ghetto's are wholly owned subsidiaries of one party who sates that group just enough so they vote one way . Maybe you should read Rev Wayne Perrymans book it really details how one party has set up the entiltlement programs to promote single parent families on welfare . 5 couldn't agree more . 6 couldn't agree more 7 So , your answer to us never becoming Greece would be to allow one Party to just keep on Spending , Borrowing , and Printing Money . Do you understand economics and what that would do to the value of the dollar ? 8 the only people who say Rep are Crazy are Libs and their Media ..seems it's working on some . Dems in Illinois are totally corrupt and without ethics . that doesn't mean all are crooks .9 Liberals don't exist anymore . Bill Maher , Joy Behar Rosie , Madcow , the list is endless is that the talking point now ? That Liberals don't exist anymore ..so what do they call themselves ? Alinsky Socialists ?

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    10 Blago is as Dem Lib as they come . Did you see his farewell address touting give aways for votes and Social programs for votes ?He did have enough sense to name a Highway for a Native son .10 couldn't agree more . as Ive said before , I grew up Dem would love to vote for ethical ones ...JUST SHOW ME ONE . Otherwise I like ethical servants I don't care whether they are Dem , Rep or , Martian . The reasons Indiana and Wisconsin are such interesting dynamics isn't just about Rep leaders and Servants juxtaposed against Illinois Dem Rulers ..It isn't just about Party , it is about how they have tackled Pension debt and the savings that creates . That is the reason they don't need new revenue streams and our Dems do . Hence Speed Cameras Continued ..

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    I rest my case.......

  • I've got an idea. Lets compare the potential revenue from speed cameras with the reality of the billions that the oil industry has been given in special legislation as payment for their campaign contributions most of which goes to "conservative" politicians.

  • Inactive user

    The problem with any scheme that has the potential to "Raise Revenue" which also is aimed at stopping dangerous/evil behavior that is hurting innocent people is that if the program actually works then the behavior will truly be limited and the revenue stream will eventually cease -or at least eventually taper to a trickle.

    It's the age-old "Working yourself out of a job" dillema.

    But this is the government. They really want the revenue and once people stop speeding they will have to do SOMETHING to keep them speeding just to keep the revenue stream up.

    Look at cigarette taxes. If they really cut down on smoking the government would lose that revenue so they hobble themselves in many ways so that they never actually win the war on smoking. Of course. They'd either have to live without that money or begin to ban something else -ice cream? French Frys? Whatever.

    It's just like the parking meters. Parking metering was NEVER originally about raising money. It was about making sure that there were parking spaces in front of businesses for the customers -not people using them for long-term parking. The fees merely paid for the meters and the meter readers. But eventually it became a big business and the government lost sight of WHY they had them there in first place -to ensure public parking in front of businesses both for the customer and for the business owners so their customers could get to them. But they got greedy in Chicago and sold the rights to parking to LAZ for a huge payday loan. They got one year's worth of a budget hole plugged or a 75-year lease. All because of government greed -and NOW we have lost almost ALL control over parking policy.

    Now we are gong to do the same thing with these stupid speed cameras. It'll be a disaster for everyone (including the city in the end) except for the crony capitalists who get the contract to suck half (or more) of the cash off of the top.

    This is Chicago -of course this is going to happen...

  • You make some good points, however remember these same sorts of aspects operate in the private sector which is sometimes more inefficient than the public. Medicare, for example, has much lower transaction rates than private insurance companies. As far as smoking goes I'm not sure that is actually the situation. In general consumption does go down with higher price, although the addictive quality of smoking does make it more inelastic. The bottom line here is that the rate of smoking has gone down considerably in the U.S.

    I'm probably with you on the speed cameras, since speeding is vastly overwritten as a violation given its tenuous relationship to safety. On the other hand, the research on red light cameras is quite clear showing that they do contribute to safety and should be employed.

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    FACT: The cameras are going up, whether we like it or not........we can debate this until the goats come home......They are there for people who speed...............The concensus on this thread is....it's being done for REVENUE..........We can beat them at their own game.....If you don't do the CRIME......There won't be a FINE....Sure it may take longer to get from A to B.................But in the long run who WINS?

  • Inactive user

    I don't speed very much in the city. I try to go the exact speed limit most of the time but at the very most go 5-over.

    I also come to a full and COMPLETE stop at every stop sign or at a red light before turning right.

    This kind of behavior draws the ire of PISSED OFF dirvers who honk, yell things out of the window, pass unsafely in the bike lanes or left/right turning lanes and even throw things out the window at my car.

    I don't feel sorry for anyone who gets a speeding ticket by these cameras. But I still feel they are going to be a mistake. Heck, when they don't get revenue they will probably widen the roads and do whatever it takes to get speeds back up so they can give out fines just like redlight camera companies have been caught shortening yellow lights.

    It's all about REVENUE -not about changing driver behavior. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    seniorpunk ..that Oil subsidy thing is a basic Liberal Lie they get no more prefered Tax Help then any other Corporation . Nothing like the help the UAW recieved from Obama in Auto Bailouts ...I don't know what that has to do with Speed camera's . The arguments Ive made for instance , were an attempt to show why these revenue streams are needed . I. E. Union pension debt causing budget deficits , and the Dems need to placate the Unions causing undue Taxation of the citizens . By the way Big Oil has donated at a 3 to 1 clip to Obama ..so why all the hating on Oil . Another thing that's hard for those on the left to grasp . OIL profits are good for America as the more profit the more they pay in taxes .Profits being a good thing for all Americans is Hard for those who consider themselves 99%ers to grasp . Not so hard for us who consider ourselves the 53% ( % of Population paying taxes )

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    @ James couldn't agree more they will find a way to keep the tap open right up to the point where everyone gives up their cars and no one comes in to vist our city . Then they will have drained the productive tax payer to the point of not playing . I can see rapidly evolving schemes to keep people speeding for the revenue . Like the yellow lights at the red light camera intersections it will amount to entrapment and we gotcha moments brought to you by the people some of you voted for . When you get them you will feel fleeced . If half the people realized what an entrapment revenue scam the red light cameras are , they would never vote for those thieves again

  • This comment has been removed by EveryBlock staff.
  • EveryBlock Becca Director of Community Management

    Hey everyone, again, please help us keep this discussion on topic and locally focused as it's starting to wander again.

    Thanks.

  • Inactive user

    Personally I'd like to see large portions of the near-downtown area and the loop off-limits to all motor vehicles except those certified as low-emissions vehicles -maybe issue special plates to certified LEV's.

    Also, I'd love to see speeding cracked down on by real cops with serious fines. The money should go to pay victims of hit & runs and other road injuries caused by speeding vehicles so that the greedy government officials don't use it as a new revenue stream to tap.

    I don't have a problem with $1000+ fines that go up with each additional offense. I do have a problem with this money used as :"revenue" for reasons I stated above.

    This city has an issue with this as the old meter readers before LAZ took over used to wear bright reflective vests for safety that had the word REVENUE lettered prominently in the back.

    That's the crux of the problem...

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    We're being set up for the law abiding residents to get fleeced again. The professional scoffers always get off scoffers get off scott free. What we really need is WASTE REDUCTION. We need to GET RID of the union personel who don't work..and get rewarded by lucrative pensions for a lifetime of loafing.

    Just that move alone could reduce the cost of labor by maybe half....

    I base that on seeing union personel driving the slums on my block...driving around doing no work. Or they come 17 times to do a job that could have been done right easily in 1 or 2 visits.

    This is the TRUTH. Have been living it here on my block for 15 years. The WASTE and FRAUD is beyond anyone's comprehension.

    Look at our youtube.com video. East Garfield Park, Camera 398 and you can see all kinds of illegal activity going on for hours and days...while CPD gets paid. We need to STOP THE WASTE AND FRAUD and throw away the key.

    We don't need speed cameras with the ruse of protecting children and then the money will go to subsidize Park Cafe in Millineum Park.

    We need the Police to protect children walking to/from School. We need speed cameras on the expressways and thorough fares where speeders go 60 on city streets.

    Keep the concepts simple...and a couple steps, 1,2,3 cha cha cha.

  • This comment has been removed by EveryBlock staff.
  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    I enjoy EVERYBLOCK.........And I thank people (over 400...I think) for what they have written and if I agree.........Bike Jedi is an excellent writer anf very informative and I look forward to reading his remarks and thanking him for them...........

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    As I tried to state . I also Thank you a lot ..It must be great minds think alike . Anyway we have been summarily admonished and must stay on topic . I tried to also ask Louise what her opinion of speed cameras was . Safety or revenue ? Needed for safety , or just fleecing ? I would also love to hear her views .

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    We need to VOTE OUT corrupt politicians. We need to get their union people FIRED so they don't rip us off and bankrupt the city.

    Tomorrow is the day! Vote...

  • A bit of clarification, I was asked what oil company subsidies, which do exist to the tune of approximately 4 billion, have to do with the discussion of speed cameras. The connection to which I was responding was that the speed camera discussion seemed to include assertions about union and such political contributions as part of the problem as well as a number of negative comments about government in general.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    An alternative to increasing revenue is to CUT expenses. It is the WASTE that is killing us. So we don't need more cameras; we need more WASTE to be cut from the budget. Example: if a city worker comes out 17 times to get streetlights on. If a city worker comes 17 times to change a leaky water meter. If a city worker comes 28 time to clean up blocks strewn with so much garbage and growth. These are all REAL costs to a taxpayer.

    So...saving and getting a great job done by efficient happy workers will do more to saving than getting more money to pay those lazy goof offs...It is their pension that will tip the scales to bankruptcy.

  • This is what kills me about these discussions, always blame the worker, the union, pensions etc. Pensions are only underfunded because the City and State stopped paying into them. Heck the greatest scam perpetrated on the American public in the last 40 years was to replace pensions with 401k accounts. We should all be lucky enough to have a pension. The city has a budget problem for one MAJOR reason. They are siphoning tax dollars from the general fund thru TIFs. That's money we're taking from the police, schools, fire, health, libraries streets, PENSIONS etc. TIF money is then spent so CBOE can put in gold toilets, or Boeing can get a city subsidy, or the Mayor's friends can get city handouts for condo developments. It's OUR money that's getting "redirected", not Rahm's or Daley's or whoever else ends up in charge. They play a shell game with us by starving tax revenues to justify privatizing city assets, OUR assets. Or putting up speed cameras or closing CPS schools to put in politically connected charter schools. Yet another way to for City Hall's "friends" to get rich off of the public dime.

    I'm not saying that there's not waste or inefficiencies in city services, but what there is is overblown compared to the theft that happens right under our noses. That great parking deal Daley rammed thru has left us with a 25 million dollar hole in the budget in addition to random million dollar bills to the city from LAZ parking. We spent all the proceeds and essentially have nothing to show for it. Why do you think speed cameras are getting pushed so hard? They had to make up data to justify them. But the kids we're supposed to be protecting with these money makers are getting shot on almost a daily basis. What's wrong with this picture?

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    TIF's are part of the problem . The pensions are a bigger part . Chris M pointed out that these pensions were underfunded ( And I say raided ) As i keep saying WHO is responsible for that ?? The Unions still support those people with our Tax dollars and their muscle on election day ( also known as Day of the Dead hear in Chicago and Illinois ) . The Unions are just as much to blame for getting those Bozo's elected . Their leaders watched these Dems stewal that pension money and said NADA . Now it's up to all us Suckas to pay it . Hence the need for new revenue streams . The only Municipal Employees who need a Union and deserve a Pension are Police and Fire because of the nature of their jobs . No one else needs a Union to Collectively bargain against the Tax Payer . The Unions and the Dems bargain against the Tax Payer here and the Tax payers are without an advocate to represent their needs . We will see this trend continue and be magnified against our Neighboring States as long as the Dems and Unions continue their Money Laundering of our Tax Dollars unabated ...Who do you think is going to pay for that ???

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    One other thing if the Unions are mad because their pensions weren't funded they should blame those they help get elected and ask them for their money back . If they were fair they would tell the Dems to give it back without stealing more of the Tax Payers money as it isn't our fault the Union leaders wached those they stole elections for steal that money . what do you think the chances are of the Unions and or the DEMS doing that ? I would say not much when they can just speed camera us and most of you will roll over for your party like Sheep . A lot of Illinois Business owners are fed up and have moved out of the State ( 61,000 jobs at last count ) ...How many more jobs will we lose before these people wake up ..Or do you people enjoy being fleeced ?

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Thanks Bike Jedi............The facts you have mentioned.....speak for themselves!

  • Tom Herlihy Interested Neighbor - Lived here 10+ years

    The speed cameras are a joke and just a revenue grab. Their lobbyists are very well paid and those companies have huge marketing budgets, they are at every tradeshow...

    We need to use voting for cameras as a election issue.

    @Chris M - (And sorry to everyone else about Jacking this thread) You wrote...

    "Heck the greatest scam perpetrated on the American public in the last 40 years was to replace pensions with 401k accounts"

    I ask you, as an employer, why should I be responsible for your income (or health) after employment is done? I should have no responsibility to anyone for any reason after employment. Thus the 401k is perfect, it allows employees to be able to move companies at will, be in charge of their own retirement, and not face "underfunding" unless you underfunded it yourself.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Glenn Brettner .when you have underinformed , and sated on welfare voters you get this type of result . One Party depends on it as they use our Tax dollars to sate that group , while they use the same dollars to pay and pension Union party elites. Elites who know or are related to someone with some juice.... lucky enough to know someone and work for the city . That leaves Knowledgable voters at a numbers disadvantage and we get Dem Leaders and voters endorsing and electing CRIMINALS . Everyone who pays attention knew not to vote for him in that district and he still won . With People electing officials like this they should realize that with that comes total corruption and the feeling by those DEMS they can do anything and get away with it . In this environment Rahm knows he can get away with this theft and his " Progressives" will vote for him . This is why jobs and productive people are leaving this State . They know with all the votes these people buy that there is little hope for change here.

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    I wonder if the low voter turn out..........really low......was the voters way of saying...........ENOUGH!

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Voters are STUPID. They complain and grouse but don't do anything to help themselves.

  • Turnout was low probably from apathy as much as anything else. On my ballot other than a few judges, Circuit Court Clerk and ward committeeman there really wasn't any choices to make. My State rep and Senator ran unopposed (since they voted for those damn cameras I saved myself the trouble of voting for them). Also Illinois won't allow write in candidates on the ballot without registering months before the vote (funny how that works), so you're stuck with whoever runs. I find it repugnant that Smith won his primary but his voters didn't want the GOP candidate in Democrat clothing (Chicagoans really don't like Republicans, Sorry Bike Jedi). The key is getting some real primary challengers on the ballot and then having voters show up. It sounds easy but it's anything but.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Maybe this is why the HS drop out rate is 47% and the City College drop out rate is 93%...Keep em stupid...and they don't have much brainpower or ambition.

    There are no excuses for not voting. We call this a democratic society...but it really isn't. Some kind of pac machine or cronie machine controls the government and that is why TAXPAYERS get fleeced.

  • Inactive user

    VOTING just encourages them.

    NOT VOTING is really voting NOTA/no-confidence in the system. Those who worship authority HATE it when people don't vote because it only undercuts their legitimacy and their deathgrip on liberty and freedom.

  • RAKARWOWSKI RETIRED CITY WORKER, CLEANING UP HUMBOLDT PARK

    You got to love them Democrates! They just voted in a Democrate arrested for taking a $7000.00 dollar bribe because the other Democrate switched sides and was a,.. get this... "a slimy Republican".Keep up the good work Democrates, Illinois will collapse in no time like Detroit! What will be the next tax? O, wait, that's right, this is not a tax, how foolish of me!!!

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    gpblight said something interesting about uneducation ..Think about it ...Who's teaching our kids ? Dem Union Teachers who have a vested interest in keeping their Money Laundering agreement with THE PARTY in place . A dumbed down uninformed and paid for people voting as a block are their best friends .This would explain why kids aren't getting an education but rather a Good Ole Liberal Indoctrination ...These kids aren't being taught economics American history or the Constitution . They have no grasp of how Gov't decisions will affect the future , especially when it comes to Spending Pensions and Taxation . They do know about GBLT ,OWS, and every other issue the Libs want out there . . I would say to Chris M that Republicans don't stand a chance with the cards stacked against them here . These forums prove there are plenty of reasoned conservatives in Chicago . The problem is that the Dems buy off half the electorate . They go into every election Knowing the Permanent Underclass of Victim /Entitlement / I want free stuff people , will vote for them . They also have the Unions in their Pocket and both of these groups are bought and paid for with our Tax dollars . Couple that with a very Liberal Media and that is a Home field advantage that is hard to beat . I would say It is more likely Chicago voters Don't have Republicans with deep enough pockets who want to run in a City like this . I would venture that they know even if ( Republicans )they were elected they won't be able to put in any fiscal restraint due to the Dems here not wanting their funding for votes scam stopped . So we don't get Republicans to run here . What we do get is a future felon being backed by THE PARTY and their flock voting for them .

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Scarey stuff Bike Jedi.........And I ask ....what is it about this city that has the Dems hell-bent on destroying it...........not to mention our NATION?..........WHO ARE THESE FREAKS?

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    gerigirl I find it interesting that a lot of people see it plain as day while others don't see it or just ignore it because the Dems butter their bread

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Bike Jedi & RAKARWOWSKI..........Staying in this city and country is like staying with a lover who cheats on you.........I question how I can continue to be a part of this corruption and pay taxes on top of it........I love you...Chicago....I love you USA.....................but I'm falling out of LOVE with the creeps trying to control me.............

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Oh....Wait......I'm suppose to shut-up........and stay in DENIAL.....hmmm.........Not so much!

  • RAKARWOWSKI RETIRED CITY WORKER, CLEANING UP HUMBOLDT PARK

    gerigirl, Sorry to say it but the stream is going to turn into a flood to leave the city/state with crap like this going on and the Dems are not ashamed at all but are even proud of what they do (their actions on TV should make everyone sick)! I just retired from CPD and ALL the other officers asked me where am I moving to? When your police officers move away the first chance they get, this is a red flag waving sign that that states "the ship is going down fast". I am not leaving but every officer I talk to thinks I am NUTS! These Dems make me proud to state I AM A REPUBLICAN! Why are Dems not learning- this is what happens when the majority of voters learn they can just vote for the government to give them larger and larger hand outs. Do they not realize that someone still has to pay for all the goodies they give themselves? All the speed cameras and raising taxes only forces the tax payer to flee! Please let's all learn from Detroit before it's to late!!!!

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    and the 900 pound gorilla is 2 Illinois Governors in prison right now

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Which reminds RAKARWOWSKI....My Mom told me when I was growing up, that my Dad told her "We may not see this in our l;ife time, but I'm pretty sure our kids will...this city will become another Detroit"......So I'm the kid he spoke of.....and I also think he was right!

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    RAKARWOWSKI ..Thanks for serving our city . I agree with you and gerigirl ..this is not a good scenario ..All the writing on the wall won't change the way people vote here as half of them are paid voters ..It will take decades for this to change with Democrats knowing they can just keep raising taxes and creating new revenue streams and the only people these taxes affect are the people who are smart enough not to vote for them . When these people leave who will pay these taxes ? Will they get them from City Union workers who are paid by Taxes ??? How will they do that ??Will they get them from all the Dope addicts on disability ???Will they get them from all the Victim class and Where's my free stuff crowd ?? What would that look like as those people are all Takeres and not Makers ...It's people like you gerigirl , and RAKARWOWSKI that give me some small hope . You know , there has got to be some Dems and Libs that can see this yet they remain silent ? Why ?

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Bike Jedi......The paid voters will stay that way.....the rest (vast majority of Lakefront Liberals) want everything too remain the same because their too busy thinking about themselves and their needs and can't be bothered thinking about honest politics and change.........Like I said before, City Hall and Springfield need a cleansing from one end to the other.......because, "money truly is.... the root of all evil". People like yourself and RAKARWOWSKI can get up in the morning and look in the bathroom mirror and like the man they see.......because you both have given back thru.....word...thought and deed......how do I know?..........thru both of your written words........can these politicians say the same?.........NO....they can not!

  • Tom H,

    Sorry for the delay, got tied up in other places.

    The basic premise is shifting the cost and burden of the pension from the employer to the employee as a 401(k). Most people are just not prepared to manage their retirement investments and contributions. And with a 401(k) the company can get out of contributing ANY money which is why companies have shifted away from pensions. If the employee leaves or retires the company would stop making pension contributions regardless.

    In my world we'd have single payer so the health burden is removed from the employer completely.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-401k-americans-just-not-prepared-to-manage-their-own-retirement-funds/2012/04/03/gIQAnQV1uS_story.html

  • my apologies, but how did we get from speed cameras to 401(k) ? as a commenter i am supposed to stay on topic, so ..... perhaps someone needs to take this discussion to another site. I really enjoy keeping up to date on Logan Square happenings but this is a downer. just saying.

  • I felt obligated to respond to a direct question but you're absolutely right.

    The topic is speed cameras and the phony data they used to pass it. It's still phony, the cameras are still a scam and if you have thoughts on the matter contact your alderman. The hearing is coming up next week. I'm dying to attend but work obligations will not allow me to.

    http://theexpiredmeter.com/2012/04/speed-cameras-get-a-hearing-date-next-week/

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    R St james ...Cool name ..I think it's all relevant to the speed cameras because of the simple fact that if this City were run properly , and not just for the benefit of the PARTY and it's favored elite peeps , we wouldn't need Speed cameras . Then we could talk about bake sales and stuff . We would all be better off and we would have money to spend at the bake sale. Plus the bake sale would probably benefit a worthy cause . Happy Easter everyone

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Well Said, BIKE JEDI........Well Said!

  • I don't know. It sounds to me like everyone wants to have the right to break the law and speed in restricted speed areas. Whatever happened to obeying the law??

  • Inactive user

    Kewpie it sounds to me like someone didn't bother to read the comments of everyone. Because NOT EVERYONE is against these speed cameras because they want to speed.

    Heck, I think that the speed limit for automobiles in the city should be 20MPH everywhere. I think motor vehicles drive WAY TOO FAST in town and nobody needs to go faster than 20MPH.

    But I do not think that corporate-crony private businesses should be involved with speed control. If these cameras are installed the private business that would be installing, maintaining, and making the BULK of the money off of them will have ALL the reason for people to speed MORE -not LESS because they will be making MONEY off of people speeding. If people actually do slow down then they will be LOSING MONEY. Do you think they are going to stand by to do that after investing all this infrastructure into these speed cameras?

    These cameras are a BAD IDEA.

  • Inactive user

    It would be simple to lower the speed limit to 20 everywhere and hire a few cheap traffic cops driving little electric golf carts with radar and full Google-like 360-degree cameras to observe and record the speeders and pull them over. Heck, they don't even need to be armed -these guys could be glorified meter maids who just give out speeding tickets. They'd pay for themselves but not become a huge labor block that would be hard to get rid of once speeding drops and they don't need to be as large of a force (otherwise they have the same self-perpetuating problem that the speed camera companies have.)

    If someone runs just take down their license plate number and the car type and video the whole thing and have them pass it on to dispatch so the real cops in interceptors can find them. Unless the car is stolen it'll eventually show up at their place of business or home. Ticket them for speeding and a huge fine for running. Simple!

    I'm all for slowing down automobile speeds on our city's streets. But the speed cameras are a TERRIBLE idea. Put some meter-maids in golf carts with radar and cameras and they would pay for themselves as well and bring down speeds. Once Chicago gets a reputation as not being soft on speeders people will slow down.

  • Sorry. I should have said "so many" instead of "everyone" but lots of complaints on all the threads that talk about it. It seems like everyone does get off into other political topics on the threads having to do with speed cameras. Bottom line, obey the law, or you should get a ticket.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    When did Traffic fatalities around schools become an epidemic ? Has Speeding increased through the city or decreased due to traffic congestion ? It's not abouit people wanting to wantonly break the law . The only reason these cameras are going up is because of Rahm and his party's need to fund thier workforce's pensions . Once again , how many of you get pensions ?This has nothing to do with traffic safety .If you do slow traffic down to 20 mph you will create more gridlock , ruin commerce ,and attract fewer visitors .This will mean lower amounts collected in sales taxes etc . People will gert fed up and move , and those people will be procutive Tax Payers . Other will sell their cars . What this means is the city will have even fewer people to collect taxes from . The Dems solution to this will be what it always has been ...Raise taxes and fees on the remaining fewer people .

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    People ONLY obey the law when there are penalties and consequences.,

    No arrests make SPEEDING wide open...and streets more dangerous.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    As someone who drives everyday and drives a lot , I can tell you that speeding is down ...There will always be speeders but once again that isn't the goal of speed cameras

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    BIKE JEDI.........Feel like your beating your head against a rock?.......lol

  • Well, at least speed cameras will kill two goals with one stone.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    No, the way it works is the INNOCENT get snaired in the wide cast net. Then it is a nuisance and inconvenience for us to take off a day work to go to court, pay for parking, and alot of time to collect evidence to get out of tickets.

    That is THE CHICAGO WAY.

    The guilty wrangle and GET OUT of tickets...so easy targets are what they are after...not lawbreakers.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    Since when is it a nuisance to drive the speed limit and actually come to a complete stop for lights and signs?

    It is not a nuisance, it is THE LAW!

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    No one is advocating breaking the law . Gpblight couldn't agree more . We all will get pinched as these things will entrap and snare the innocent and those people are mostly productive tax payers . It will also be a traffic cluster f&*(

  • Inactive user

    I drive the speed limit everywhere and come to full and complete stops before starting again from a stop light or proceeding from a red light when turning right before proceeding.

    People go NUTS behind me. They all want to speed and get very angry when someone is going the speed limit in front of them or stops for stop signs and red lights.

    The people NOT breaking the law are probably 2-3% maximum. I'd say maybe even a lot less than that even as I feel like the only person on the road going the speed limit.

    I don't think there will be very many innocent victims of any speed enforcement. But I'd like to see the money taken from these scofflaws actually going for something other than lining the pockets of the politician's cronies.

    The speed cameras are a bad idea. I'm all for fining the lining off of 98% of the speeders out there -but not lining the pockets of Rahm's buddies in the corporate underbelly of the city.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Yes...we are the turnip. Fees are the blood.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    gpblight ..you are right ...fees are the blood and Rahm and his party are VAMPIRES ....I wish I was a teenager ..that might be cool.... Bela....Bela where are you ?????

  • Rahm needs to find as many ways to fix the budget deficit as he can, so he doesn't have to raise taxes on us. So, if making lawbreakers pay helps, I'm all for it.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    Interesting article in today's Chicago Sun Times. It appears as if aldermanic and constituent pressure is forcing Mayor Tiny Dancer to rethink his deal with his campaign contributors:

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/11825339-418/speed-cams-questioned-amid-installation-of-10000-speed-humps.html

  • You can criticize without name-calling, right?

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    Just using a commonly published nickname for the worst Mayor in Chicago's history. No name calling - just repeating what has been published several hundred times on other websites and in other publications.

  • Kewpie62,

    Let me get this straight. Your concerned about somebody calling the mayor names, but an ordinance that turns law abiders into law breakers so the city has an excuse to raise revenue is ok? An ordinance that would benefit the mayors major contributor and the company he works for that sells the city the cameras. An ordinance sold to lawmakers and fast tracked without public input as urgently needed, but based on wrong or phony data. An ordinance pushed by a mayor who actually hasn't lived here much in 20 years, otherwise he'd know we already spent millions on traffic control in school zones.

    From the suntimes:

    "Chicago has installed 10,000 speed humps in streets and alleys and created 450 cul-de-sacs, 400 traffic circles and 250 “bump-out” curbs since 2005 alone — many of them near schools and parks — raising questions about why the city also needs speed cameras."

    Everyday people are being shot, school kids in particular. I think murder is against the law and a must bigger threat to school kids than so called " speeders". So called because there is still no proof that Chicago even has a speeding problem.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    The SAFE SCHOOL ZONE law is RARELY enforced in my neighborhood.

    That will REALLY PROTECT kids because it sends the bad guys to jail for a min of maybe 3 years.

    Gangbangers beat up kids on their way to school...almost everyday.

    That is a FAR GREATER risk to schoolchildren in EGP and on my block.

    ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAW S is the issue!

    We don't need more posturing for TV to make it look like politicians are working on something new.

    We don't use what we got!

  • Kewpie,

    Here are ticketable city laws that are not currently enforced:

    1. Cyclists blowing stop signs and red lights.
    2. Jaywalking
    3. Pet owners not licensing their pets
    4. Dog owners not picking up their dogs excrement
    5. Homeowners not shoveling their sidewalks in the winter.
    6. Homeowners garbage cans not being closed at all times.
    7. Homeowners letting their grass grow too tall
    8. Homeowners not mowing the parkway in front of their house.

    Unlike a phony speeding crisis these happen everyday. When are we going to issue tickets so MY taxes don't go up. I'm also sure we can find some law your breaking on a regular basis that we can ticket and raise money from.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Lets do a running tab. Can others post MORE not enforced laws?

    1. Safe school zone
    2. Drunken and disorderly
    3. Loitering
    4 Urinating in a public place
    5. gambling
    6. Dicing
    7. Littering
    8. Drug sales
    9. Illegal peddaling
    10. Loud music over XX decimals by cars
    11. Street Parties without permits
    12. Loud music playing in buildings.
    13. Building with no watchman
    14. Building with no registration
    15. Building not secure
    16. Burning
    17. Dumping
    18 Parking on city owned and private lot
    19. Vehicle parked on street more than 7 days
    20. Vehicle not working parked on city street
    21. Commercial vehicle parked on street overnight

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Why aren't there teams out ticketing Apt. Building owners for bldg. code violations.........starting with backporches? Fortune to be had!!

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    Code violations are ticketed by Building department, which is actually controlled by local aldercreature.

    CPD cannot issue tickets on code violations, and if a building inspector tickets someone who has bribed an aldercreature, errrrr made an outrageous campaign contributation, God help the building inspector.

  • d3 NOH

    ..or fine the buildings that aren't offering their citizens recycling. It's been a law on the books for 15 years, it's $100/day, yet never, ever enforced as far as anyone can tell.... there are thousands of potential citations on a daily basis for this

  • I'm against anybody calling anyone a name. So, Beach was quoting others, but it's still not a nice reference. Two wrongs don't make a right. (that's a quote) I'm all for all laws being enforced, too. 31+ wrongs don't make a right. As for the worst mayors....hummm. I've found plenty of good and bad in all of them. I parked on the near north lower Wacker today to go to the dentist. It used to cost $2.00 for 2 hours at the meters. Now it costs $7.00. Hummm.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Sorry I'm late to the party ...Kewpie what do you think the Speed cameras are if not a new tax ? It's all asinine and I have to agree with Beach and Homan , Rahm is already the worst Mayor in Chicago History . I can't believe I'm saying this but the Tiny Dancer makes me long for the good old days of corruption "Daley" style . I like the way Rahm made a dog and pony show of a longer school day . Not for the benefit of the informed Chicagoan but rather for the media and his indoctrinated flock . Informed people saw it for what it was ..Posturing ! Now he has backed down off the longer school day somewhat . That wouldn't have fixed education anyway . Summarily he now is backing down on the speed cameras in an effort to get aldermanic support . Today they bandied about lower fines . Once these cameras are put in the fines will increase and the only people who can't see that are the die hard bleeding heart I will defend the Democrats no matter how wrong and evil they are people. Kewpie I hope you understand that the only reason Rahm is facing a debt problem is because they pay and benefit City Workers far beyond what is customary in the Private Sector ..You know the people who pay the bills and are leaving our City in hordes .They pay and benefit the City Unions like that for their undying loyalty to the "PARTY" ..Just like Communists do .. It is unfair they expect the Tax Payer Citizen to foot the bill so they can enjoy the support of City Union employees . Pay and benefit them for like work in the private sector . Problem solved and no new taxes . Refer to Wisconsin for a working model .

  • d3 NOH

    IMO the problem with city pay scales is not that they're overpaid, it's that city pay grades usually don't take into account actual job performance but rather just how many years they have at the job... (and for that, you can thank the unions most likely).

    Also, The new state law that allowed for speed cameras also set the maximum fines--so they can't just easily change the fines. Well not without more lobbying, which they do a lot of down state, including lobbying for this bill. I think the original fines they announced were already the state maximums ($50 or $100 IIRC? hysterically lower than the red light camera tickets)

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    I think three guys changing light bulbs and averaging 70 K plus pensions and benefits is way overpaying and benefiting . That is from John Kass article that I will attempt to find and link .

  • Inactive user

    Yeah, People who work for years for the city changing light bulbs and doing all the other jobs that you don't want to do deserve WAY less money, and definitely shouldn't get benefits. Their kids shouldn't be able to go to college, they shouldn't be able to afford to own homes, shouldn't be able to retire and no one should show them any appreciation at all. Why again? The people who serve this city deserve to live and support a family just as well as anyone else. Say a family of four...http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/dcd/supp_info/area_median_incomeamichart.html

  • Inactive user

    dick. and that IS saying it respectfully.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    No one is saying they shouldn't be paid a fair wage . They shouldn't make 70 K to change light bulbs , and your statement that they are doing jobs no one else would is just inane . They should be paid and benefiited like the people who pay their salaries . You know the people who are makers in society . Or do you believe that the people who live here should not have the same right to make a decent living and to provide for their families ? Is that , " sending their kids to college and supporting their families " , just supposed to be for the ruling party elites ? ...And who are you refering to as a dick ? I have relatives that have worked their whole lives to try to send their kids to college only to watch their jobs be eliminated as those companies left Chicago and Illinois . Those Jobs left because of Taxes and things like Speed cameras my friend . These people can't send their kids to college but all you worry about is if some connected crony can do it .

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Yes, write up buildings. Give tiff dollars to make new porches for the old and poor. Then let the slumlords pay for their own...or section 8 renters double.

  • Inactive user

    I'll do it for $60k and without the pension.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    I'll do it for 50 K ...and then if all my co workers did the same ....Rahm wouldn't have to tax and Speed camera the tax payers just to ensure he and his party get my support on election day

  • Bike Jedi, in answer to your question to me - ..."Kewpie what do you think the Speed cameras are if not a new tax ?" A tax would be paid by everyone. The speed cameras are fines paid by law breakers, not everyone. The mayor is trying to find ways to bring income into the city without taxing all of the citizens with real taxes, not fines paid by law breakers that some call a tax.

  • According to the city, the new speed limit for city streets will be 20mph between 7am and 7pm.. Cameras will ticket for going 26mph and camera "operators" will determine when a pedestrian is present whether they are children or adults. Good luck with getting to City to determine that.

    http://theexpiredmeter.com/2012/04/speed-camera-ordinance-passes-out-of-committee/comment-page-1/#comment-94682

  • And if anybody wants to know who Rahm has pushing this crap it's Gabe Klein, Chicago Department of Transportation Commissioner.

    "The first look at the alleged violation is done by Redflex Traffic Systems, followed by a contractor for the Department of Revenue.

    The speed camera process will add a third review stage where a city employee will also review the potential speed violation. According to Klein, a child would have to be documented in the citation photos and video for a violation at the 20 mph speed limit to be issued."

  • Inactive user

    The speed limit should be 20MPH 24/7.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    @CHRIS M: I thought part of the law passed in Springfield required a POLICE OFFICER to review all tickets which were to be issued by cameras. If this has been removed, we are all in trouble!

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    Thanks CHRIS M for the link to the article on expiredmeter.com

    Yes, it seems the city plans to lower the speed limit to 20mph. The current law says its 20mph only "when children are present", but there is no way the city can enforce that with cameras. So we will be forced to drive 20 mph to make ticketing easier! ,,,,screw it that the city is 20 miles long and 8 miles wide. Anyone wanting to go faster will be branded a LAW BREAKER and a DANGER TO CHILDREN ! Crap, we will be passed by the bicyclists.

  • d3 NOH

    no, there's no requirement that it be reviewed by a police officer. It can be a civilian that works for the city, and the requirements for that review are actually related to the calibration of the equipment not the actual per citation basis, which is done as mentioned by Redflex.

    The state law text is all online, and fairly easy to decipher. I read the whole thing and it would be news to me that the law says anywhere in it, as someone mentions above, that children must be present in the picture for the ticket to hold. (there is a requirement that a "right on red" red light ticket requires a pedestrian present--which I'm sure a lot of people don't realize)

  • Inactive user

    Cars are dangerous. Cars are killing peds and un-armored bicyclists and other road users.

    Cars don't need to go any faster than 20MPH. At 30MPH they are more than 2 times as likely to kill whatever they hit and run over. At 30 it doubles AGAIN (and you know people always go over the limit.

    If you want to go fast in your car then take the expressway. I'm all for there not being a speed limit there at all.

    But on surface streets, where there are peds and other people on the roads cars should not be going over 20.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Tell it to the mayor and the governor
    letterforthemayor@cityofchicago.org

    Governor by scrolling and using the State email box.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    The comments "cars are dangerous" and "cars are killing peds and bicyclists" are so vague and loaded that it comes off as emotional and biased manipulations.

    Im all for promoting earth-friendly transportation. And for educating the driving public on how to safely share the road with bikers. But I dont think the world should not revolve around bicyclists.

  • Inactive user

    Statistics: a bit old but actually they have gotten WORSE in the past couple of years

    Every eight minutes, a pedestrian is injured in an automobile accident (according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). In the course of a year, automobile accidents involving pedestrians claim almost 5,000 lives and result in 70,000 injuries.
    Due to the mechanism of automobile accidents involving pedestrians, we tend to see some of the most severe injuries, ones that frequently result in life-long disability. Amongst the injuries commonly incurred by pedestrians are:
    Fractures
    Brain injuries
    Degloving injuries
    Injuries to internal organs
    Joint injuries
    In 2007 alone, 4,654 pedestrians were killed and close to 70,000 people were injured in pedestrian-related traffic accidents. More than 170 of those fatalities were here in the state of Illinois, and 49 pedestrian fatalities were in Chicago. The Illinois Department of Transportation reported a dramatic increase in pedestrian deaths in Chicago, rising to 56 in 2008.

    Cars are dangerous to other road users and are killing a pedestrian every month (or more) in the city of Chicago. 20 times that number are seriously injured, maimed and crippled by these car-strikes.

    There is nothing VAGUE about these numbers!

    http://www.rosenfeldinjurylawyers.com/practice/motor-vehicle-accidents/pedestrian-injuries/

  • Inactive user

    I meant every WEEK a pedestrian is killed by a car in Chicago -not every month.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Green has its' place in the world. But crazy bicylists also need to be ARRESTED.

    One hit me in a rear pannel...and tried to blame me! Thank goodness a wise person behind the desk at 11 could figure it out.

    Then, in the weirdest chant in unisome...the other officers at the desk chided about how agressive bicyclists are and that they are running into cars commonly.

    I had NO IDEA this was going on until I experienced it myself.

  • Inactive user

    $10/gallon gas.

    LOVE it!

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    Your original comment was vague. Your statistics are not vague, but they are not directly connected to the argument. You have not shown that these car/ped accidents were the fault of drivers. You also imply that lowering the speed limit by 33 percent would significantly reduce those stats, without supplying any supporting evidence.

    Finally, your comment "cars dont need to go faster than 20mph" is a little selfish. People lead busy lives. They dont want to spend needless time on the road driving at bicycle speeds. I would say they actually DO need to go faster than 20.

  • d3 NOH

    to say the citywide speed limit should be 20mph makes you sound off your rocker, it's absurd.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    @ACTIVE NEIGHBOR:

    Pursuant to Illinois Compiled Statutes 625 ILCS 5 Illinois Vehicle Code. Section 11-306, anyone wishing to make a RIGHT TURN ON RED must come to a COMPLETE STOP, whether there is a child present or not.

    The red light camera ordnance CANNOT supersede state law by allowing right turn on red without stopping when a child is not present.

    The complete Illinois statute covering RIGHT TURN ON RED [which also covers LEFT TURN ON RED, where both streets are one way and the turn is appropriate from the left lane], can be read at:

    http://law.onecle.com/illinois/625ilcs5/11-306.html

    BE AWARE: ALWAYS COME TO A COMPLETE STOP!

    Remember, too, that the complete stop must be BEHIND THE LINE, BEHIND THE CROSSWALK LINE, or BEHIND THE TRAFFIC CONTROL SIGNAL.

    Stopping ahead of a painted stop here line, whether posted or not; stopping within, or past, the crosswalk; or stopping beyond the traffic control signal is the same as not stopping at all and constitutes a ticketable offense.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    ERROR CORRECTION: Last comment was directed to @D3, not @ACTIVE NEIGHBOR

  • Driving west down Chicago Ave today, and using the 1/8 of a mile distance from a park or a school, it would seem that from about Ogden to Califonia a driver is going to be within the enforcement area and might not even know it. All along that corridor to the north or south are parks and schools just a couple of blocks in either direction. Does that mean the speed limit will be 20 mph along that major artery during "school hours" or will the 35 mph limit be enforced? Guess I better ask my alderman.

    BTW, if you have a smartphone, log on to trapster.com as soon as you turn on the car. As you drive, it will alert you to where cameras are located. I've always be cautious at lights, but it's good to know the ones where you shouldn't push going through a yellow.

    @ B&H, you forgot Mayor 9.5, Racoon Eyes and Dead Fish. :-)

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    @JAMES: I would support an increase in Federal gasoline taxes of $3.00 per gallon, or more, but only IF that increase was used to offset the cost of rapid transit and provide true interurban transit the likes of which was previously provided by the electric interurban transit systems in the Chicago area and still provided by the South Shore Electric Railroad.

  • Inactive user

    Taxes/schamxes.

    Gas is going to be $10/gallon soon enough without them.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    Coming to a COMPLETE stop is further stated by the REVIEW COURSE WORKBOOK issued by the Secretary of State's Office.

    This book, which was designed for anyone who is required to take, or retake for any reason, the written portion of the driver's license examination, includes both the questions and proper responses for the written portion of the test.

    It also indicates some of the key points upon which the driving test is graded.

    A scoring key is included at the end of the document, which can be opened at: http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/dsd_ds9.pdf

  • d3,

    Please read the article at the link, this is the full exchange. I posted only half of it earlier.

    "Ald. Rey Colon asked a very obvious, and up to now, unasked question.

    “How will the camera determine when children are present?,” asked Colon about enforcing current school zone speed law that reduces the speed limit in these zones to 20 mph during school hours and when children are present.

    According to Klein, an additional layer of review will be added to see if a violation has occurred. With the current red light camera process, there are two stages of review. The first look at the alleged violation is done by Redflex Traffic Systems, followed by a contractor for the Department of Revenue.

    The speed camera process will add a third review stage where a city employee will also review the potential speed violation. According to Klein, a child would have to be documented in the citation photos and video for a violation at the 20 mph speed limit to be issued."

    This means wherever cameras are located in "school zones", the cameras will now ticket at 26mph regardless of the regular speed limit. The city will review those to determine if they are valid, not that the cameras will ticket only if children are present.

  • Inactive user

    LOL -so this camera scheme will take more city workers that need a salary and a pension.

    In the end it'll cost more than it brings in so they'll have to increase the size of the net -further creating more jobs on top of that.

    Pretty soon every human being on the entire planet will be working for the City of Chicago reviewing videos or at the company running the cameras...

    BRILLIANT!

    Why not just hire some meter-maids in golf carts in the fist place and cut the corporate partner out of it?

    This is LAZ all over again.

  • Let me point out that Gabe Klein is on record as saying Redflex will be reviewing tickets. This is of course after Rahm said Redflex, where his lobbyist buddy works, wouldn't necessarily get the contract. Wink Wink, the fix is in. I also wonder with three layers of review how much money is this actually going to cost us to administer? What's Redflex getting paid or the "contractor" for the Dept of Revenue.

    When can we get Pat Fitzgerald to start looking at this mess?

  • James, I think you're finally starting to get it.

  • Inactive user

    Oh, I get it.

    I'm all for slowing cars down to 20MPH.

    But these cameras are just another government-corporate crony Chicago(tm) mob deal.

  • As I said I would I asked an alderman (not one that has Chicago Ave in his ward, but one who has voiced concerns in public meetings) for an answer to my question about arterial streets within the "bubble" of enforcement. Here is his answer:

    "I don't know that we have the full answer to that question, yet. It definitely needs to be posted wherever the speed is reduced and cameras in place. The committee is going to consult with the Alderman but the control is still going to be in CDOT's hands."

    He also said that they will have to post both "Photo Enforced" and "School Speed Zone" signs in order to give tickets. He doesn't think the speeds would change along arterials, but couldn't be definitive as the Mayor doesn't want the aldermen to have any say about where the new cameras go up.

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    You people do realize this thread has lasted almost 60 days? give it a rest. I was up in North Chicago last week - it was late, i was tired. 3 days later I got a $100 red light violation. I navigated to the website on the ticket and was able to watch a video of my car do a "rolling stop" making a right turn on red.

    what was interesting was the video lasted about 30 seconds and in that 30 seconds 7 vehicles behind me did the same "rolling stop" - that's $700 in 30 seconds.

    to say theses cameras will cost more to operate than they bring in is simply naive

    we're self employed and pay retail sales tax (Illinois, cook county , Chicago) - February was the smallest bill we've had since 2004 and that is where the problem lies

    The cameras are coming because they make money - they don't take breaks or paid vacations require no pensions and can produce upwards of $1000 per minute in revenue - it's simply a voluntary tax - if you voluntarily speed in a camera speed zone - you're going to get a bill in the mail.

    I was in a bus stop with my flashers on picking up some carry out (Ashland or Western) - the owner was leaving, saw my car (Windy City Parrot on the back window) called out and said a space had opened and even paid the quarter for me to park.

    He got a ticket in the same spot - restaurant name on car - parked in front of restaurant w/ flashers on running in to get some items for delivery. 2 minutes got him a $75 ticket -

    the city is going after low hanging fruit - because it's there to take.

  • My fear from the beginning has been this scenario:

    You're driving home at 6:30pm (camera's run 7-7pm), school kids are long gone (school ends at 2:30pm BTW). The posted speed limit is 30mph and you're driving 31mph. but you come to a speed camera. It tickets you going over the school zone speed of 20 mph, regardless of whether are children present. There was no real real infraction and you were breaking NO LAWS, driving well within the speed limit. But now the city has issued you a $100 dollar ticket for speeding because it "says" you were driving 11mph over. These are automatic tickets that will then be reviewed by Redflex, who has an incentive for tickets, a "contractor" at the Dept of Revenue and a city employee. The burden of guilt is on YOU.

    The city has now admitted that drivers obeying the speed limit will be ticketed anyway and their review process will sort it out. Even red light cameras at least operate on a law being broken. They don't just issue tickets to everyone who drives by and then lets the city figure it out. I just cannot believe the audacity of this scam. And like I've said from the beginning, this isn't about speeding or the kids. It's about raising money by making law abiding drivers into law breakers and revenue raisers. Anybody who owns a car is at risk.

  • Thanks Mitch, I guess we'll bend over and take it, no questions asked.

    Dick "it's only fine print" Mell couldn't have said it any better.

  • @ Chris -- I'm amused that Mitch took a shot at people for still commenting and then...commented.

    No offense, Mitch. It made me smile.

    Watch for side streets to be congested after the first wave of tickets. For example, in the West Town area, people avoiding cameras on Chicago Ave will take Superior or Iowa. People avoiding cameras on Grand will take Ohio or Hubbard. People heading north or south on Western will take Campbell or Oakley

    Then a kid riding his bike really will be hit by a car, but it's "all about the children," right Rahmbo?

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    I like to pick my battles an this is not one I can win - slightly OT - the US now has the highest corp tax on the planet. The CEO of Cisco who just built a large facility in Ireland (17.5% corp tax) - said they have $40,000,000,000 in cash sitting outside of the US.

    Point is I'm stuck, Chicago's stuck and Illinois is stuck. Without job growth and fresh local tax dollars (circling back now) there's no money to pay out on the deals that the Governors who are now in prison (& dead) - cut.

    If i had a pension and if I though giving back 5% would help - I would - but i don't. If I had healthcare and thought raising my deductible or paying a couple of dollars a month more in premiums would help - I would - but I don't have healthcare

    The speeding cameras are coming because they mean REVENUE. I'm not going to bend over, I now come to a full stop EVERY WHERE and I do the speed limit EVERYWHERE because I see no need to supplement municipal coffers - I've seen the (red) light (camera).

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    High corporate tax rates? The RATE is high, but after subsidies, tax exemptions, tax breaks (ie corporate welfare), and not including corporate accounting tricks and downright tax dodging, the ACTUAL corporate tax rate is lower than most other industrialized nations.

    http://www.smartmoney.com/invest/markets/high-corporate-tax-rate-is-misleading-22463/

    One trick is for a corp to hide income overseas, after moving operations to another country. Like Cisco.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Yes but it's that very taxing policy that is forcing companies to do that

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    James is right about one thing...$10/gal gas will be a reality if Obama stays in power ..I have to disagree with him on that 20 mph thing . The cameras as evidenced on this thread are going to cause mass confusion and road rage to boot . They are going to cause almost everyone to drive a steady 20 mph throughout the city . This is punishing law abiding citizens and will be a Tax on all as everyone loses productivity . Another by product will be less vistors as peole fron the suburbs say in their best Joe Pesci accent .." who need to put up with that Bull S#&t "

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Chris M you mentioned Fitzgerald up there , that he should look into this . He only goes after Democrats that have fallen out of favor and have become a nuisance . He goes after the ones who tried to profit but never saw a dime . See Blago . He doesn't have the testicular virility to take on the Daleys for his son making over $700,000 while brokering the Meter deal with William Blair and assoc , nor the shady dealings with the Russian Mafia dude ( Simon Gerber who owns Chicago Carraige and Cab ) . They don't go after Madigan for his obvious conflict of interest getting tax breaks for downtown building owners ( That is so unethical that it could only happen in Illinois where the underinformed and indoctrinated will vote for blatant criminals ) He wont go after Rahm and anger their Ruler either . It's a great Idea but Fitzgerald doesn't have a pair .

  • Joe Lake Joe Lake, Chicago, IL

    A reminder, former Gov. George Ryan (R) is in Club Fed, along with many Republicans associated with Ryan and Blago.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    @BIKE JEDI, et al:

    I think anyone familiar with the free markets will agree that no one individual, no matter what office they hold, can control the price of a commodity traded in international markets and controlled by the demands of world markets.

    No President, nor any other leader or any country, can exercise those controls. Even if President Obama was to release all of the gasoline reserves in the US into the market, they would only provide price releaf for about two weeks - and then only if the oil companies actually passed on the reduced costs to the consumers.

    I, personally, do not believe that President Obama has any real control over prices.

  • Joe Lake Joe Lake, Chicago, IL

    Nor Chicago's speed cameras.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Beach And Homan . We have enough reserves in America to provide energy for 150 to 200 years ..We are not going after it . To say the President has no control over the price of oil is excuse making and denies even very recent historical precedent . It also buys into the Liberal media backing of Obama . In 2007 gas prices were skyrocketing out of control from about 1.70 a gal to 2.70 . It was nightly news with all the Cartoon Network News stations blaming Bush and admonishing him to do something . He immediately opened up some drilling permits and this eased speculator concerns . The prices started to drop almost immediately and when he left ofc they were around 1.84 a gal .Contrast that with the media today that lies and tries to convince people that he ( Obama ) is powerless to do anything about it . Then they make up a new news story to distract everyone from what should be the pressing issues of the day . That would be the economy and GAS PRICES . No sir, Obama wants these high prices and his Energy Sec does too . It is their stated goal to drive prices up to push their failing green agenda . I'm sorry if that offends the libs but that is and has been their stated goal . How many times does he have o say he wants to run the coal industry out of business for instance before people believe he is actually not lying about that .. I mean with all the lies he tells I can understand the confusion . Why do people on the left and the media excuse everything he does ? It is not rational . He could literally probably back Castro and the left would say it was brilliant .If Obama doesn't try to do something nothing will happen of course .

  • Joe Lake Joe Lake, Chicago, IL

    More speed camera research?

  • Inactive user

    FAILING at economics.

    The price of any commodity is a 3-fold stool.

    The first two are supply and demand -and you are right that bam has no real control over them. The US oil-drilling shutdown was started way before he ascended to the throne and even f we stared drilling all the reserves it wouldn't really make a difference as supply in the rest of the world dwarfs US reserves. Demand is going up -even as prices are going up as China drivers come online as well as drivers in other developing countries.

    But there is one other thing that effects prices that Keynesians always forget about. That is the value of the fiat currency. The US dollar is going into the pot -and with the ever-increasing debt load of the US we are following Greece and other defaulting failed states into bankruptcy. Unlike Greece the US can and is printing money like it is toilet paper. And that is going to cause an inflationary spiral like it has for every other nation that fell into this trap. Right now they are doing their best to hide it -but it's going to hit hard sooner or later when they run out of shells to hide the pea under. The residential housing bubble was NOTHING.

    $10/gallon gas is coming in the next year or so -so is $5/loaf bread and $6/gallon milk.

    And yes, Obama is to blame as your local congress-critter.

    This depression we are dipping into has only but started.

    $10/gallon gas is just around the corner. $20/gallon gas will be right behind it.

  • Joe Lake Joe Lake, Chicago, IL

    More gas is right.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    From the Dept of Interior ..Bureau of Land Mgmt ...Drilling permits under Clinton up 58% under Bush up 116 % under Obama DOWN 36% ...No ...this is manufactured gas crisis and it is something he and his regime want ..never waste a good crisis . The argument that the left has been saying ...That "the Republicans have been saying drill drill drill for 30 yrs and it hasn't helped " is a misnomer as the Dems and the left have consistently done everything they can to stop drilling . Mostly this has been out of the misguided concern for the environment . Not that we shouldn't be concerned about that ...James you are dead on accurate as to the currency issues and I'm hoping you are wrong about the rest but only time will tell . of course this has nothing to do with speed cameras so I will now go back to original topic

  • Joe Lake Joe Lake, Chicago, IL

    I am relieved.

  • From speed cameras to city worker salaries to gas prices to Obama and Castro. I have nothing more to add. But, I'll definitely stay subscribed to this thread!

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    @BIKE JEDI: I was not referring to natural gas reserved - we have plenty of natural gas and no where to put it because all of the storage places are filled up. The prices of natural gas are at all time historic lows.

    What we only have two weeks worth of is gasoline. Even releasing the gasoline in the reserves will do nothing to lower the prices we are paying at the pumps.

    China, world demand, and market speculation - coupled with wars and unrest in oil producing countries are holding the prices of gasoline at record levels which are only going to go higher over the next several years.

    And yes, I still think they need to add about $3.00 per gallon in Federal gasoline taxes with the money dedicated to mass transit infrastructure expansion and maintenance.

  • Joe Lake Joe Lake, Chicago, IL

    Yes, we have plenty of natural gas.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    The far right is demanding action in Iran, and the possible conflict there is driving oil prices higher. The irony is that the right is also blaming Obama for the high gas prices.

  • Inactive user

    Alex,

    Iraq wanted to start trading oil not using the US dollar and the US attacked and occupied Iraq.

    Syria was going to get off of the US-dollar and sell oil using another currency and the US backed the Syrian rebels to overthrow the country.

    Now Iran wants to get off of the US-dollar when trading oil with the rest of the world. What do you think the US will do? Don't forget who is the "Commander in Chief."

  • Inactive user

    Not Syria -Libya. Mind-fart there. I've got Syria on the brain as they were just talking about it on public radio.

  • I leave for a few hours and now things are completely off the rails.

    The city council votes on Wednesday April 18th.

  • d3 NOH

    what? Sorry i was distracted, having to watch my speedometer to not hit 25... oh crap I just hit a biker because I wasn't watching the road

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    Greetings moderator - I don't want any more of my posts removed because they are slightly OT but can you remind me what the topic of this thread is - my monitor isn't tall enough to see the beginning of it?

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    Conservatives led us into the idiotic and immoral Iraq War and the worst economy since the depression. And their excuses are that 911 was all Clinton's fault, and the economy is all Obama's fault. Meanwhile, Chicago democrats are finding ways to create more automated traffic fines, to cover the lost revenue from selling off city assets and lost tax revenues from the screwed up TIF programs.

    I cant do anything about 8 years of Republican screw-ups. But I sure can call my democratic alderman and complain about the speed cameras and the TIF program.

    Personally, I prefer discussing what works and what doesnt. When political hacks try to make it a "Dems vs Tea Party" argument, then I dismiss it as political fundamentalist bias.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    Should be no shock to anyone in these forums, but a recent survey confirms that Chicago's sales tax rate is tied for 3rd highest in the nation:

    http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20120413/BLOGS01/120419895/shocker-chicago-sales-tax-is-third-highest-in-the-country

  • d3 NOH

    Third highest? that's even a bit subjective--there are a lot of situations where it would be considered THE highest all things considered. For instance, just adding in the MPEA food and bevarage tax would take it to that level, which applies to any food establishment/bar/convenience store from the loop all the way to Diversey. Then there's the 3% soft drink tax itself, which most people don't realize exists. Chicago has THE highest hotel tax rate, at around 17-18% IIRC. Then there's the use tax on leased vehicles, another made up tax--that's 6.5% or so extra on top of a person's monthly car payment that other places just don't pay. Parking taxes here are more than double what they are in Manhattan, it's something like a 35% tax these days depending on the parking rate itself. Because of taxes, it's $6.25 just for a flag pull for a couple to hail a cab from the airport, + the driver pays an additional $2 tax on top of that. There are all kinds of hidden taxes in Chicago that other places just don't have.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Alex , love the history rewrite ..No Conservative wants a conflict in Iran but I don't know any that want a Nuclear Iran either .All of my Lib friends feel the same way .Also , there wasn't a flag waving American that didn't want action after 9 11 . I don't know a single person that spoke up about that at the time . Hindsight is a funny thing .You say that Republicans were responsible for that economic melt down ? Did you conveniently forget that it was the Sub Prime mess and all the bad debt from Loans that never should have been written that caused it ? The genesis of all of that was started by Dems ( Carter ) who thought it a great idea to try to buy hearts and votes by givng people who had no concept of how to manage a check book Mortgages ..Thus we got the Social Engineering of the Community Redevelopment Act . Clinton threw gas on the fire by repealing the Glass Steagle Act . Then the Inv banks got involved and the derivitive market was born ( trunks etc ) Now everyone was holding bad paper and the bill came due . I will say that Obama took over when the fecal matter hit the oscillating device , however he knew that going in and he has only made things far worse . He is spending us into oblivion and with no end game other then to create an army of people beholden to him and the "PARTY" . To blame any of that on Republicans is without merit . Now to bring this back on topic I beleive that if the economy were humming and the TIF thing wasn't going on they probably would have enough revenue for now and wouldn't have had to do Speed Cameras . ...continued

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Continued ...They wouldn't need it ....That is for now .. actually on second thought The party probably would have spent all the TIF money by creating nifty new Social programs and funding every non profit that is in good loyal standing ...so scratch that ..if you give these people money they spend it and want more . That is been historical and it is fact ...By the way Indiana balanced their books by luring our jobs over to there state and now that they have a budget surplus guess what they are doing ? They are refunding the money to the Tax payers . Not keeping and spending it . That is ethical .Do you think Chicago Dems would even dream of that if they had a surplus ? I Know , I know we will never know because they will never have a surplus .

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    d3 you are right hidden taxes everywhere ..At least the speed cameras will be out in the open Robbery

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Balancing the budget is a GOOD IDEA. However, Illinoians don't think that way. It is in the genes to keep neighborhoods declining and neighborhoods rising vs keeping everything moderately stable at a less extreme on top and on bottom.

  • Here is another article that just came out. It talks about speed bumps and other solutions that work better at decreasing fatalities. Things BTW we've already been doing.

    "Study: Speed cameras fail to curb serious crashes"

    http://www.chicagocurrent.com/news/33861-Study-Speed-cameras-fail-to-curb-serious-crashes

    City Hall is either lying, stupid or both. None of which would surprise anybody who's been following this.

    An observation today. As I drove by Normandy park on the SW side, speed bumps all over. It was hard to do 20mph let alone anything faster. I think CDOT should be putting cameras at every speed bump in the city.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    JEDI: neo-cons looked for excuses to attack Iraq. Documented fact. Myself, and many thousands more, protested that invasion right here in Chicago. Hundreds of thousands more did the same across the country. I dont recall any right-wingers saying one word against the plan. In fact, republicans were all calling people like me a traitor. Now you republicans have problems looking in the mirror. Nice "Fox News" attempt at rewriting history.

    Oh, and now JIMMY CARTER is also to blame? Along with Clinton and Obama? Still ze-ro criticism of Bush from the right??? Your corporate right-wing diatribes make it hard for me to read much of your posts.

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    How many of u are old enough to remember???

    Govt air raid drills. We filed outside, stood in the parking lot; then filed in a basement and got under a desk to protect ourselves from nuclear bombs Russians would drop on ous.

    Then there was the Vietnam war story that gooks would swim across the ocean with a knife in their teeth and kill us in our beds.

    Yep we can always rely on a steady stream of PROPAGANDA. The problem is, most at the time...don't sense it is propaganda.

    My most irritating PROPAGANDA in the city is that COMSTAT says crime in all areas except murder are DOWN. The sorry truth is that CPD doesn't get out of their car and arrest anyone in 11th District.

    Did a rough calculation of !5,000 drug deals or related incidents in a month...would be !5,000/30days=500 daily.

    That sounds reasonable...500 drug related incidents a day...

    This means that we could have a REAL FIELD DAY...with this under reporting of crime.

  • Joe Lake Joe Lake, Chicago, IL

    More speed camera information.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Alex you protested that ...traitor ....I'm just kidding , I admire people who stand up for their cause . You are right some pople did protest . I should've said most Americans were for it . Yes Jimmy Carter Community Redevelopment Act . Supposedly this was going to redevelop the ghetto's of America and help poor people get into homes . Well they got one part of it right ...Poor people who had no idea how to balance a check book were given mortgages and homes in exchange for their votes ..That's the way it worked anyway ...The ghetto's however still stand as a monument to entitlement spending and failed Social programs ...I dont know what thqt ha to do with Speed Cameras but thought I would answer that . I do admire people whostand up for what they believe and I think this eb post is letting people do just that .
    Ive read many of your posts on a variety of subjects and find you intelligent and thoughtful . I guess we just disagree on some issues . it is only through dialogue that Americans will ever come together again . We are a Nation divided now .

  • Mitch your wish has come, The City Council has voted yes and ended this thread.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/clout/chi-emanuel-speed-camera-ticket-measure-approved-20120418,0,4714568.story

    As I predicted, Moreno caved and voted in favor. The next election can't come soon enough.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Unbelievable . Whoever voted for this should be voted out

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    IT'll be like Facebook time line changes - every one will whine for 30 seconds, then accept the inevitability of it all. Unfortunately the $34.50 quarterly City of Chicago dumpster tax we just paid, wasn't enough.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    It ain't over yet!

    Lawsuit calls city’s red-light cameras ‘illegal’!

    "A class action lawsuit was filed Wednesday to put the brakes on Chicago’s use of red light cameras, which are described as “illegal” in court papers.

    The suit was filed by two motorists ticketed after their vehicles, authorities said, were filmed blowing red lights in Chicago. The suit also opens the doors for other plaintiffs to join the case."

    To read the complete article, see:
    http://www.suntimes.com/news/11987463-418/lawsuit-calls-citys-red-light-cameras-illegal.html

  • Jeff Dog lover

    FYI, according to the Tribune:
    "Voting no were: Alds. Arena, Cappleman, Pawar, Osterman, Fioretti, Dowell, Burns, Hairston, Sawyer, Jackson, Chandler, Waguespack, Sposato, and Reilly. Absent were Alds. Maldonado, Reboyras, Graham"

    So for those of us with Aldermen who actually represent their constituents, lets say thank you (Thank you, Scott Waguespack!!!). For those that don't, lets make sure to remind our voting neighbors to end the villainy...

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Thanks Jeff i will actively work to vote out anyone who did not vote against this including my ald ..who I like to call Ald Gang Banger ..Rey Colon

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    He's mine also........hang your head Rey!

  • gpblight 15 Yr East Garfield Resident

    Fioretti is a good man who understands the law well and tries his best to get justice for his constituents regardless of the income level of the block.

    Colone has a very responsive office and has done his best to keep a ward with diverse constituents happy. Sorry he did not vote against this ordinance.

    Maybe there are other ways to unwind this vote.

    Schaumberg got rid of their red light cameras near Woodfield Mall when shoppers at the Mall boycotted the shopping mall...i think.

    So, residents could boycott activities in the businesses where the red light cameras clip them. Business would then get involved too. Big Box stores that collect lots of sales tax...would get involved as they have the most to loose.

    Then trickle down would impact sales tax revenue and the governor would have an interest.

    Alderman would have an interest when loss of sales impacts their TIF dollars...and so would the mayor.

    Maybe all Chicagoans should shop in the surrounding suburbs so we can get this ramrodding programs down the throats of taxpaying residents...gets repealed.

    $$ Talks! more than VOTES.

  • Mark Rector Logan Square and loving it!

    Don't get a ticket... ride a bike!

  • Inactive user

    $5/gallon gas is natures way of telling you to ride your bike.

    $10gallon gas is right around the corner. Boo hoo!

  • The day is coming that bicyclists will be nickle and dimed like cars are now with city stickers, registrations, red light fines etc.

    The howl of collective whining will only make me smile. I may even refrain from telling you "I told you so".

  • Inactive user

    And so will walking shoes, grocery carts, and skateboards...

    All the sooner for the people to finally rise up and throw off the masters.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    CHRIS M: bikes dont have license plates, so they would be anonymous to cameras. What people arent getting is that the automated method of enforcement can be applied to almost ANYTHING that has a registered owner Cars, trucks, boats, homes, businesses . . . . soon you will be getting a ticket in the mail for not cutting your grass, or not shoveling your sidewalk. And it will be GUILTY...unless you can prove youre innocent, in an administrative hearing. But people are bending over and allowing it. They will deserve the results.

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    @Chris M - looks like kerosene to me - my votes in November will be to anyone who's not in office now - I'm thinking of starting a party and calling it the "One Term Party"

    Short selling now illegal in congress - politicians are thieves - if they wanted to do good they could have become cops or doctors. Politics teaches you how to steal and steal more once you leave office.

    @Alex - many suburbs already ticket you for not cutting the grass or painting your house. In another life I lived in Buffalo Grove where the water police would start ticketing at 7:00PM if were watering the on the wrong day. I posted in another thread we just paid our quarterly $38.50 City of Chicago dumpster tax. Someone is going to have to give up some pension benefits before we're taxed into oblivion

    @gpblight - I remember the nike (not the shoes) missle silos along lake shore drive.

    Rahm came to Chicago to be king as he could never be more than a prince in DC

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    @Mitch......Very well stated......However don't underestimate Rahm, he wants nothing more then to be king!

  • Inactive user

    Mitch,

    I agree with strict term limits for ALL public "servants."

    One term in office followed directly by one term in JAIL.

    Do not pass Go, do not collect your golden parachute to work as a "consultant" for some big corporation...

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    MITCH: yes, suburbs already ticket for a variety of reasons. My point is that automated camera tickets would allow for a huge increase in tickets issued, using stationary and mobile cameras. The revenue will drive politicians to go that route. The driving force behind these systems will be to increase revenue, not to change behavior. Revenue will trump fairness, justice, and sound social policy.

  • Alex,
    Registering and/or licensing bikes is just a matter of time. It can easily be done with plates, tags, stickers or maybe even tags with RFID's. RFID's would also enable the bikes to trigger the cameras with infractions. Heck it was already discussed this year as a way of balancing the budget. Do you really think the city is going to keep spending millions to put in bike lanes and have a way to raise revenue? I guarantee as we post, Redflex or some other company is working hard on coming up with a plan. The more cyclists flaunt the law, the easier it will be for the city to implement a plan.

    I second term limits! For my money they can reduce the city council to 35 Alderman and make it a full time job. Why we need 50 rubber stamps is beyond me.

    Mitch,
    I'm by no means someone who'd vote GOP. But I'm fed up with the garbage that keeps coming out of the Rahm/Madigan/Cullerton Triumverate. A healthy democracy needs choices but the Illinois Republican party is in serious disarray and just as corrupt as the Dems. I'm not even sure if my State Reps are going to have GOP challengers. We may be looking at write in candidates as the only opposition.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Lots of stuff up there ..it seems James would like an Amish Chicago with Buggies and Bikes . I am on record as supporting Bikes , however some of us need cars and trucks for work . To avoid all fines I'm going to become a recluse and get welfare and I will only ride a Stationary Bike I will generate my own electricity so I won't feel like a total mooch while I lay up and watch Maury and Oprah ...Heh heh ..then they will figure out a way to tax that .Mitch said something about someone having to give up some pension benefits and that has been my mantra for years . Why should the people we pay to employ deserve recieve and feel ENTITLED to recieve pay healthcare and benefits all out of line vs their private sector counterparts . Until that is rectified we will always have budget deficits and new revenue streams .Chris M mentioned the day is near when Bikes will be fined and Nickeled and Dimed . I need to correct that Rahm promised the tax payer in his campaign that he wouldn't do that ( nickel and dime us ) as we had been " Taxed Enough Already " ( Rahm using tea party rhetoric ) . We have to give Rahm credit as he doesn't lie about this ...Oh hell no... he skips right past nickels and dimes and goes right for that C note in your pocket like a good Dem er Theif . I will vote for the people I think are the most ethical who want to cut taxes and bring Govt Union Payand bennies in line with the private sector . I don't care if that's a Dem or a Republican . I have no built in bias against the GOP there just isn't a lot of them in out City or County.

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    Bicycle licensing, cat licensing, etc . . . . Im not going to debate the likelyhood as they are not major concerns for me. But the expanding use of camera enforcement for city ordinances . . . . . its happening as we speak. This is bad social policy and an unfair system. And the trend will expand to other ordinances. That is a huge issue. Bend over Chicago.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    I've been waiting for Chicagoans to get tired of bending over for a while now . i'm starting to think that they rather enjoy the experience . I wonder how they will feel when we start looking like Detroit or Gary . I'm starting to wonder whether these progressives will embrace that movement and just keep bending over . It is scary and it is bad policy .

  • Inactive user

    Speed cameras are in essence a use tax -- a way of collecting revenue from people using the roads -- much like a tollway. You use, you pay. Unlike a real tollway, speed cameras give you the decision to pay or not to pay the toll. Overall however, a certain percentage of people will choose to pay this use tax and the city needs revenue sources. Use taxes are IMHO, the fairest form of taxation possible.

  • The only people who will be paying this "use tax" are people who go more than 11 miles over the speed limit. I won't be paying it.

  • No you'll be paying when you go 6mph over the speed limit which is 20 in school zones. That means 26mph speed demon.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    @CHRIS M: Schools AND PARKS.

    That covers about 48% of the City right now. There is also a provision to lower the speed limits to 20 miles per hour in several other parts of the City.

    Area 014 is already starting to aggressively enforce the 20 mile per hour limit aggressively between the Kennedy expressway as you head south on Kimball to half way between Armitage and North Avenue where it becomes 25 miles per hour again until you hit Beach when it becomes a school zone again.

  • Beach and Homan - 30 Years 30 Year resident HP, 60 Year, Lifelong Chicago Res

    Almost forgot: there are two levels of fines:

    - one kicks in at 6 miles over
    - one kicks in at 11 miles over - at a rate almost 4 times the 6 mile per hour fine.

  • Jeff Dog lover

    Kewpie62, are you really naive enough to think that once this is in place, as the city's coffers get worse and worse, they won't just dial up the old fine-o-meter on these things (now, literally, a setpoint in a computer) and watch the money flow in? They'll do it "for the children" and soon 0.5 MPH over, you get $100 less of food on your table.

    I mean, after all, you ARE speeding, and you MIGHT kill or injure a child at that 0.5 over!

    (And I might have brought my crystal arrowhead collection...)

  • 6-10 mph over is $35, 11 or more is $100.

    They don't much like cameras out west either.

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/04/santa_fe_man_shoots_up_speed-enforcement_car_video.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

  • Addison and Western will be a "speed" trap - there is one tiny sign on Western (a four lane arterial road) that states it is a 20mph school zone (for Lane Tech). There is an existing red light camera at that intersection, so that is where this will be implemented. If you are going 26 mph down Western you are not "speeding" or "endangering children" and if you don't know it is coming up, you will get caught in the trap. The people flying down the side streets, failing to stop at stop signs are the ones who are endangering children -- but it will be more difficult to collect money from them (there aren't existing red light cameras at those intersections)....so oh well. It's "for the children"....yeah, right.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Nancy in Roscoe Village gets it

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Mark A of course the City needs revenue but ask yourself why ? As I've stated before Chicagoans ENJOY some of the Highest Tax rates in America and when you tack on all the fees ( which are taxes ) it is our honor to pay the highest taxes in America . Now they want more . This level of taxation is only necessary because of Public Union Pay and Benefits far out of whack with what is customary fo those who live here and pay the taxes that support them .That is the cause of our city needing money . There is no other reason period . Until this is addressed it will be a never ending series of tax increases and new fees .The Dems in Chicago will give the Unions whatever they want to buy their support . No less an authority then Mike Madigan admitted this the other day . By the way there is a difference between theft and user fees . These 20 mph citywide speed zones ( thats what people will do to avoid fines ) will slow traffic causing traffic gridlock , affect commerce and cause road rage etc etc . We will see less visitors to the city and her businesses meaning less collected taxes . Productive tax payers will continie to leave . None of this is good .

  • AoifeSineadRonan babysitter & JP resident

    fair point Bike Jedi I agree with your thoughts

  • I'm told by someone who should know that Tiny Dancer promised aldermen he wouldn't put in more than 3 cameras per ward and that they could have "input." Not final say, but "input." Right...

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    OMG I can't wait to see what fine surprises they have for all of us . This is going to be Rahm's playground much like the TIFs were Richie's OMG I feel like I can hear Darth Vader music playing in the background

  • I envsion a city where the bikes go faster than cars...maybe that's what he wants. Nah, he wants the $$$.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Good Guys Wear Blue ..I agree . I think the dream of bikes traversing the city faster then cars has been a reality for Bike msgrs for a while especially when they go outlaw and run every light when in a hurry . These measures however will bring that dream to novice and posers and they wont even have to ride msgr style

  • People who think the cameras are up are already clogging Chicago Avenue in the morning...not kidding.

  • Jeff Dog lover

    And once bikes are the fastest thing, shiny new anti-terrorist technology will be used to send *THEM* the speed camera tickets... rinse, lather, repeat...

  • Inactive user

    For about 6-8 hours a day (which is really about half of the time people are out driving around if you discount the middle of the night when most folks are sleeping) bikes ALREADY are a faster way of getting around in this city. And this doesn't even require "blowing" stop signs or lights.

    Factor in being able to find parking RIGHT in front of where you are going within 10' of the door and not having to park a block or 3 away and walking the rest of the way and riding a bike is faster.

    Riding a bike is even faster than riding a motorcycle unless you are willing to break every law in the book -and parking STILL is hard for motorcycles.

    I laugh at $5/gallon gas. I"m ready for $10/gallon gas. Hell, $25 wouldn't bother me.

    BRING it.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    I love bikes too but Some people need cars . $5 /gal gas already sucks for people who drive for a living . Those high gas prices do no one good . They destroy the economy cause consumerables to rise in cost ( food even beer ) etc etc . We need low gas prices to give all people viable transportation options and to help lower prices and get the economy rolling . We need to also promote bikes for me and James

  • I don't need gas, I need electric and solar. Why I have to send my money to Chavez, or the middle east, Nigeria, Russia etc. is beyond me. I'd rather give it to Americans making batteries and solar cells.

  • It consistently baffles me how people can say "we need low gas prices" out of one side of their mouths and then turn around and complain about government handouts, welfare and other assorted intervention. Gas is one of the most subsidized products out there. And what we need isn't low gas prices - it's a viable alternative to gas. And yes, Bike Jedi, one of the biggest reasons we don't have such an alternative is because the oil industry also has one of the largest and most influential lobbies in government today.

    Fossil fuels are a mature industry. Back in the 50s and 60s we saw how effective the government can be in pushing research and development. And yet in 2010 the fossil fuel industry received $409 billion in subsidies globally. And only $66 billion on renewables. From 1961 to 2008 the govt spent $172 billion on green energy research, but $30 TRILLION on fossil fuels and electricity infrastructure from 1970 to 2009. You just let me know when those numbers add up to making an attempt at real change.

  • Numbers are from the U.S. Energy Information Administration, btw. Just in case anyone wants to check the math. http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/index.cfm#financial

  • Inactive user

    Do we even factor in the costs off all our oil-wars waged to make sure that all oil in the world is traded with US dollars?

    Look at what happened to EVERY country that even threatened to trade oil in non-us currency.

    The minute that happens the US$ is dead and oil will shoot up to $10/gallon overnight. There will be no more money to subsidize oil for cheap gas to mollify the US driver/consumer.

    Greece is nothing, when the US runs out of elbow room to print money and dominate oil-trading world-wide we are going to see some big-time crying.

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    @ Chris M - I'm sure you've heard of SOLYDRA - and you still want to invest is US made solar cells? Good luck with that.

  • @Mitch - because every investment pans out? Plenty of startups go belly-up for any number of reasons. It doesn't mean another company in the same industry doesn't work. By that logic everyone should stay far away from pretty much any technology startup in existence.

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    @ Rich you're right but investing in US solar panel companies is like captain Ahab chasing Moby Dick with a cup of tartar sauce. The Chinese are dumping solar panels on the US market at 1/4 the cost to manufacture in the US. The folks who approved the US taxpayer backed loan guarantee knew this

    All I'm saying is a business plan usually requires a SWOT analysis and you're friend and mine the big O invested your money and my money ($500,000,000) with out paying (or ignoring) any due diligence.

    We sell a lot of Chinese products because China (Asia) is the only place left to employ workers who work 12 on 12 off 7 days a week for 2 years (by state mandate) so it's unlikely we'll see any large scale successful (profitable) solar panel manufacturers in the US any time soon.

    So I would advocate that if you have a bundle of cash to invest in technology start ups - stay away from US based solar panel manufacturers because they're a lousy bet.

  • The Chinese Govt is subsidizing solar production in addition to pegging the Yuan to the Dollar. All the US would have to do is slap a tariff on Chinese panels and the point is moot. In addition production is increasing while panel prices are dropping. This is putting pressure on Manufacturers to lower production costs. I see no reason the US should cede solar production to China. It's our technology and we should make it here along with the batteries you're also going to need.

  • Inactive user

    Slap a tariff on Chinese ANYTHING is to laugh. The US .gov in in debt to China in the Gadzillions of dollars. Ain't gonna happen.

    More likely that you "slap a tariff" on your boss...

  • Here's the thing - the government is better at encouraging research than it is picking winners. And since manufacturing is really not what the U.S. is known for these days, the government should be encouraging sustainable energy research - not placing bets on particular companies to go into production. Once the improved solar panel tech is developed (or biofuels, etc), manufacturers can get in the game and license the tech. New tech will take a while to reverse engineer, giving the U.S. a chance to make the stuff as long as it's willing to be nimble enough to keep improving and researching the next thing.

    But attempting to compete with the Chinese on commodity tech prices is a losing proposition.

  • The risk with research is the Chinese have shown no hesitation in stealing our technology. Patents are not going to protect your IP if the Chinese reverse engineer it while not paying you licensing fee. Also the U.S. isn't picking winners as much as seeding the industry.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Joe.. I dont understand ANY correllation between whether it is good for America to have low gas prices and Entitlements . Can't fathom what you could possibly be drawing there. What does one have to do with the other ??????? And anyone can see low Gas prices are good for all America independent of wheteher a green agenda is a good thing . The two things aren't joined at the hip. We still need fossil fuels and willneed them for the foreseeable future . Let me know when you have a Battery powered 747 Ok ? When fuel prices are low the cost of all consumerables drops . Because eveything you buy is shipped to that Costco you go to . When you save $40 or $60 at the store maybe you can go out to dinner and help a Local business . The way things are now , between higher prices on consumerables and Rahm and the Dems continuing fleecing of the citizenry no one will be able to go out . Come on now this is just common sense .People like you should like Oil Co profits after all for every gal of gas that is sold the Oil co is making about 6 cents ..the Govt is taking in over 86 cents a gal here . As for you all wanting a battery powered car ..go buy a Volt ...Hopefully your house doesn't burn down .The simple fact of the matter is Solar and Wind are great if you want to pay a higher premium to get your energy from them . Their price per Killowatt hr is not competittive with other sources of energy . If you want to get to a viable green energy alternative ..maybe Obama should have funded research with all that money he used to set up front companies such as Solyndra and Fisker . One other thing if tyou think the Oil Co have lobbyist you are right but the green agenda has the biggest lobby of all .. Obama ! I'm not against the dream of a viable green agenda and support research not money for Obamas political donors at Solyndra and GM . Put the money in research . Continued

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Continued..Meanwhile until you show me a battery powered 747 or semi...we still need fossil fuels and they shouldn't be demonized . If you don't want your money going to Venezuela or the Middle East pressure the Obama and the Dems to let us get our own reserve here . See common sense .I don't know what any of this has to do with speed cameras

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Jmes OIl is traded in US dollars not because of wars but because the US dollar was long considered the most stable currency in the World . It is the Reserve Currency and therefore Oil is traded using the US dollar ( and it's world wide Value ) as a marker for what OIL costs per barrel . This assures everyone around the World understands what it costs . Before the US Dollar was used for this standard the Brittish pouind preceded it for that standard . That eneded when the Pound became worthless . One other thing someone mentioned the Chinese stealing our technology ...This is true and they will ...That is whatever Bill Clinton just doesn't give them . Missle Guidance technology so China can better launch space probes and do space exploration ring a bell ? Of course they only wanted it to build better ICBMs and now they are giving out tech to N Korea and probably Iran

  • Y_2_K I aspire to be who I am.

    Battery powered 747? You parroted that directly from Rush Limbaugh, Tuesday 4/17. OBVIOUSLY, electric/hybrid/etc won't work for everything. But come on, that's the definition of hyperbole.

  • Inactive user

    Commercial air uses a crapload of fossil fuel. It's pretty much blowing our children's future.

    Another HUGE user of fossil fuels is the US military. The amount of fuel wasted by the air force in a single day makes the fossil fuel that private cars use seem insignificant.

    SO we are wasting a crapton of oil burning it in wars to get more. Typical flawed governmentthink

  • While yes, the military IS a big user of fossil fuels, they're also some of the biggest proponents of sustainable technologies since those technologies simplify logistics and supply chain. If anyone is going to be able to drive Congress to invest in these technologies, it's the DoD.

    http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2012/01/operation-sustainability-u-s-military-sets-ambitious-environmental-goals

  • Inactive user

    Rich, were you ever actually IN the military?

  • ROTC once upon a time - but that doesn't really count. Not sure why service records are germane to the conversation though.

  • Inactive user

    It was pretty much a rhetorical question.

    Nobody who has served in the military would ever believe that they could ever be "efficient" in anything.

    There is such a thing as 'military efficiency" but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The US military is very good at sharpening the spearhead of the war machine into a lean, mean, fighting machine -but only so far as that the very edge is refined and sharp but the whole spearhandle behind it is a massive blundering machine plagued with inefficiencies and bureaucracy and parallels the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Entropy is always increasing.

    FUBAR is how the US military (and all militarizes) work. You can make on part of the machine efficient and work very well but at the massive expense elsewhere behind the scenes.

    To believe that the military can somehow get its act together and actually create a decrease in entropy and gain inefficiencies that will somehow radiate outwards to the rest of the world is laughable.

  • Y_2_K I aspire to be who I am.

    James is right. And, even if the military WERE efficiently spending $$ (LMAO, bullsnort), that's $$ we need to be spending here, not in god knows where.

  • James - judging by your comment I think you completely missed the point (and likely didn't bother clicking on the link). The military, like any massive organization, is full of waste. However, it wields a lot of power, influence and momentum. The military has been on the leading edge of tech development for decades (the internet being a solid example of technology developed because of military research). Because they've set energy efficiency goals, money will be directed at technology that reduces energy and environmental footprints.

    This has nothing to do with bureaucracy and everything to do with a massive organization pushing green technologies and research. Whether the money is being spent efficiently is beside the point.

  • Inactive user

    No, I think you missed my point.

    The military might develop some new technologies that will save some energy in small areas that will help to fight better at the sharpened end of the stick or to help lower the needs of some of their far outposts where supply chains are long and getting fuel and supplies there is a massive undertaking that uses up 20-100 times as much fuel and supplies in getting there than it actual delivers.

    But you miss the point that for every new efficiency the military creates it will USE IT UP and become even more ineffecient in the support end because now they can afford it.

    It's like how new studies have shown that people with highly efficient cars tend to DRIVE MORE MILES now because they can afford to. People with Priuses and other Hybrids tend to use up their new-found effiencies on driving more miles because with lower fuel costs they can afford to take more trips and go more places. In the end they actually burn just as much gas -but go further with it because their new efficiency now allows them to get away with it. They don't use their cars less -they use them MORE and push their new limits right to the edge.

    The military will do this too -in spades, trumping their old limits and pushing them even further.

    Any technology that trickles down from these new advances will either not be very useful in the civilian world, be classified top-secret defense technology and not shared, or be so expensive that it will be out of reach of anyhow but a Ginormous World Bureaucracy like the US military.

    Do you know where some of the worst Superfund toxic waste sites are in the US and around the world? -US military installations. They don't play by the same rules everyone else has to.

  • James,

    Still missing the point. When a massive organization like the military wants to invest in technology and research, it gets done. Congress is the roadblock for investing more money in green technology. If the DoD says they need to spend money on something, they generally get it. If Obama tells Congress he wants something, it gets debated endlessly. See the difference?

    As for technology that trickles down from those advances being not very useful in the civilian world, classified, or expensive, allow me to introduce you to other advances that aren't useful to civilians, classified, or too expensive such as:

    - GPS
    - Satellite communication
    - The internet
    - Nuclear power
    - Radar
    - Jet engines

    Please let me know if you'd like additional examples of these nigh-useless technologies.

    As for your reference to research on people with efficient cars driving more miles, that theory was recently debunked. Turns out that people actually have to go where they have to go, regardless of the car they drive. In essence, the Prius Effect is a load of crap.

    Again - feel free to check the math: http://co2scorecard.org/home/researchitem/23

  • Inactive user

    I've got a great business deal for you. I'm selling shares of Lower Wacker Dr. Send a money order and you can own a part of it too...

  • Y_2_K I aspire to be who I am.

    James you'd be much better if you didn't resort to indirect insults and other stuff after 2-3 posts where someone doesn't share your opinion. You're much better on chainlink, must be b/c everyone agrees with you.

  • Inactive user

    Y_2_K -I wish, apparently you don't read The Chainlink very much...

  • Here's a site to rate the job our Mayor is doing.

    http://www.tabsonrahm.org/

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Thanks Chris.......For getting this post back on track!

  • Ssshhh! Don't let Mitch know, I told him the thread was over ;)

  • @Chris -- Unfortunately, there are way too many people still giving him a favorable rating. Guess they are living in a parallel universe Chicago.

  • Inactive user

    The thing about serfs is they have been bred and trained to worship authority figures in uniforms and fancy hats.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Somebody up there mentioned I parroted Limbaugh . I do listen but never heard that particular quote which just goes to show great minds think alike . He , like myself deals in fact and logic . There are no alternatives to getting a jet in the air or a Semi down the road ..Not mention Rail .The Truth is NOT hyperbole . I think RICH G made some good points up there and if someone thinks that the U S Military" can't "operate with efficiency I would ask them what do you think every army that weve come up against would think of that ? Having said that I will also say when it's not an emergency situation the Military probably wastes a ton in resources and dough .I agree with RICH the Military are one of the best places to go for real world results when it comes to tech breakthroughs . Hell , we wouldn' have the internet if it wasn't for them or should we credit Al Gore ? NASA used to be good at this too before their mission statement was changed from exploration to outreach to the Muslim world . Im not a war monger by the way but I do support the Military and NASA . Chris M thanks for that Poll thing I'm going to look at that right now and Good Guys is right... too many indoctrinated still giving him High marks . Just wait until this building plan starts to go South and the Rahmster bails on Chicago . What will those who adore the Emperor thank about him when he is gone and sticks us with the bill . This to me shows that he doesn't plan on sticking around for long so maybe we will have a new Mayor for the next term .

  • Y_2_K I aspire to be who I am.

    The only reason I said you parroted Limbaugh was b/c that statement is utterly ridiculous, and he was using it to justify not doing anything but chugging along w fossil fuels. OBVIOUSLY, there are some situations where we're gonna have to burn fossil fuels for the foreseeable future, but I read your statement to say "well since we can't use it in these two or five examples, we shouldn't even think about using it, period." I think that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    The statement is only ridiculous to those who think we live in a land of Utopian Uncorns rainbows and Lollipos . To those who deal in the real world we need fossil fuels for the foreseeable future . Limbaugh also supports renewables he just wants to do it in a way that works . Not in a way that just sets up Front Co.s for donors ..See Fisker Solyndra etc etc .No one I know is against renewables . Most on the right even think investment would be good ...Investment in research not investment for the sake of DEM donors getting rich . I advocate research . I also advocate going after our own fossil reserves to make us less dependent on all those other country's with all those evil despots ..

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Im going to get off this pot for a while as it's going off topic and I am partly responsibl for that

  • @Bike Jedi

    <soapbox>

    While I don't normally offer advice to people on forums, I would suggest that you try to get your news and opinions from more than just right-wing sources. Solyndra was founded in 2005 and applied for federal assistance a few months later after George W Bush signed the Energy Policy Act of 2005 into law. This law enabled the Department of Energy to offer loan guarantees for energy projects. Solyndra would have never had the opportunity to apply had it not been for a law that Bush signed, so to claim that Obama is solely at fault for Solyndra's Chapter 11 debacle is about the same as blaming Bush entirely for failing to prevent the 9/11 attacks (and most of the left would probably agree that Bush ignored clearer warnings about 9/11 than Obama did about Solyndra).

    And when we have massive oil companies making record profits, I would focus more on the billions of dollars in subsidies our government is paying them despite their incredible profitability. If these companies can't be profitable without government assistance, then they should be allowed to go out of business. How is it fair to the middle class when these gigantic corporations get billions when they are already profitable, and the rest of us get more taxes in the form of higher gas prices? This is why so many people want to get us off our oil addiction and toward more modern, sustainable energy sources.

    Anyway, this thread has clearly deviated from its original intent. If I were an Everyblock mod I would probably lock it. I would also suggest that those who get impassioned toward their particular ideology step back a second and think about whether you're arguing with a clear head or arguing through your emotional gut feelings. This country was founded with the motto "E Pluribus Unum" -- "Out of many, one". It means we need to focus less on winning an argument, and more on finding the actual truth of the matter, sans bias.

    </soapbox>

  • alex trebeck Ukrainian Village since 1990

    RUSS: you sound fair and balanced....watch out for a lawsuit from fox news.

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    I'm dismayed but lurking - will advise when I become mayed

  • Inactive user

    I'm dis-mayed too. I don't believe their crazy prediction about the world ending in 2012 so I dis them mayans all the time..

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    With Dick Clark gone we may have to cancel new years - perhaps a Mayan conspiracy?

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    @ Russ - that's like saying the contractor that built the bank is responsible for all the loans that default

    @Y-2-K we own the term parrot - you owe us $10. and the problem with battery powered 747's is they don't have extension cords long enough to charge mid flight.

    @Bike Jedi - glad to see you're getting off pot

    @ James - My Rocket get 35 MPG - I drive it more miles because it 's fun

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    @moderator - they're stealing your car - just checking to see if you're awake

  • EveryBlock Becca Director of Community Management

    Hey guys, just as a reminder, we're not able to watch all the discussions at all times. Please help us out by keeping the discussion on track or reporting comments as needed to bring them to our attention. Thanks.

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    We're good mom - when are you guys coming home?

  • Joe Lake Joe Lake, Chicago, IL

    308 comments. The end is near?

  • Inactive user

    IBTL

  • Joe Lake Joe Lake, Chicago, IL

    IBTL - Exactly.

  • I always have a hard time wrapping my brain around acronyms.

  • Inactive user

    It's 2012. You don't need a brain any longer. With Google Search any knowledge is simply punching in a search term and 3 seconds away after pressing GO.

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Russ.. I was going to stay off this but you drag me back in . So Russ ..I dont usually offer advice to people on forums because I don't like coming off as Superior or Pompous . You make a lot of assumptions up there , for instance that I ony get my info from the right ..ehhh wrong . Bush didn't borrow our money to a business fronted by Dem bundlers and donors . He didn't invite private investment to those companies either . The Private money was from Dem 1%er hedge fund operators who also happened to have insider info ( that should be investigated , and how about those evil 1 %er bankers ..evil Capitalist huh ? ) . The Dems passed a Law that was supposed to protect OUR Tax Payer Money in the event one of the Companies the Dept of Energy invested in went belly up . This was a good Law that the Dems passed ... kudo's to them ..Then they screwed us and bi passed their own law for Dem Elites They then allowed their Hedge fund bundler !% er banker buddies to bail and still get paid while sticking us with the Solybdra bill . What good is passing a law if it only applies to people who aren't Party elites . I guess if you are a fat cat 1 % er and Dem these laws they pass don't matter . You then go on to state that this thread went off topic and you just got here .You insinuate that those who get impassioned toward their particular ideology should take a step back and see if their arguing with a clear head . . By doing so you imply that you are not arguing with your own biased ideology which is comical looking at the content of your post and that you are doing so with a clear head . You imply that others might not be thinking with a clear head which is condesending and insulting . I don't insult others and I don't suppose I am superior . Continued

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Continued .. I disagree with a lot of people on these forums but I don't disrespect their intelligence or opinions . In fact Ive complemented some of the people I disagree with for their intelligence and the fact we are able to have discourse even though we may disagree .You should try some tolerance and not pre judge people . You finish your post talking about that we need to focus less on winning an argument and focus on the truth . all this while omitting large parts of the truth and assuming that I wanted to win a debate .I voluntarily took myself off because I realized I was part of the reason this had gone off topic ..Ettu ?

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Mitch and James ..You guys made me laugh with the Mayan thing

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    Also somoeone clue me in on IBTL what is it ? Seriously I Don't know ..If it's a secret I'll understand .

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    James ..Thanks ...and OMG is that a funny acronym ..I feel enlightened ..Also thanks for being a reasonable person ..We may disagree on a lot we may agree on some too , but you are a smart and informed person with your own views

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    So lets get this back on topic . I heard that these cameras are going up in NOV ...anybody know anything different ??

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    I heard that also......and that they were going to put the first ones in Rhams neighborhood and further north and east...........if I remember correctly!

  • TY James ROFL

  • Bike Jedi Bike Jedi . I live to bike . Born in the Square.

    They should only be allowed in Rahms ward and in the wards where alserman voted for them . Wow that would be fun . Just think of all those suddenly angry constituents

  • Inactive user

    I was thinking of registering the website Drive20everywhereChicago.com and selling bumper-stickers and T-shirts. It could be a new internet sensation. I'd love to see the traffic brought down to 20MPH. Sure it would all come to screeching halt -all the better.

    Driving in Chicago should be much more excruciating than it even is now. Then people would stop doing it and find alternatives.

  • gerigirl I live and breathe this city!

    Rahm.....will brag.........."See everyone in my hood loves the speed cameras."...whats the big deal??

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    TDMATBICPLY

  • Inactive user

    AYHSMB!

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    YAOTM

  • Mitch Rezman We own Windy City Parrot Western

    BTW - my hobby is getting booted from LinkedIn groups 3 to date (how dare I question stupid?) - Looking for new mountains to climb

  • Inactive user

    U MAD?

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