Is Old Irving Park going to hell?

This "announcement" is quite disturbing to me. I grew up in the area in the early '70s, post "white flight", when Old Irving had allegedly gone to hell, at least if you listened to the rumors. I used to walk to Independence Park and play there all day long. I never had a problem, but perhaps I was just lucky.

We live in a large metropolitan area. There will be crime. That happens in any metro area. There are no "safe" neighborhoods. There are indeed some with higher crime rates than others. Be smart. Pay attention to your surroundings. Keep your cell phone handy and make sure you can dial 911 quickly if you see a problem or if you see people hanging around who are acting suspiciously. Keep your eyes and ears open and you and your neighbors will be much safer. Running away is not the solution. You think Park Ridge is crime free? Or Barrington? Or Lake in the Hills? They are not. Just read their local newspapers or police blotters and you'll see.

I'm also not convinced that crime is actually up. The police tell us it's down. I do realize there's a bit of self-interest in them telling us so but my perception matches their story. The newspapers and TV stations have a vested interest in reporting as much bad news as possible. Bad news = customers for them.

To accept a high crime rate as part of living in a big city is nothing more than condoning anti-social and lowlife scumbag deadbeat behavior. I understand there is crime everywhere but the question becomes how prevalent is it? Old Irving appears to have taken a turn for the worse. I've lived here for 8 years and I've never seen it take a turn for the worse like this. I've talked to some old timers and they say that it was rougher during the 1990's when a lot of the riff-raff still lived in the neighborhood but that has mostly left with the gentrification arriving in the 2000's. However the crime is not infiltrating the neighborhood from places outside the neighborhood.

Armed robberies on the side streets of Old Irving? Not just one but multiple. Numerous reports of burglaries and break-ins. How long must I wait until the criminals inevitably break into my house? This is not your typical petty crimes like theft, vandalism and breaking into cars. Multiple armed robberies and burglaries are serious crime that put criminals away for serious time. It disturbs me that there are criminals stalking the side streets of old irving after dark and committing armed robbery. How long before I am mugged? Will my wife and baby be mugged too? Yes crime happens everywhere but it's the frequency at which it happens...which seems to be going up up up. No denying it.

I think that even a small number of higher profile crimes often gives the impression of a swell in crime when there's no actual statistical increase. That's one of the great things about having Everyblock: we can see what's going on over time by looking at trends in your area (see the overview page).

I hear you saying that the frequency is going up, but I think tha'ts based on little more than anecdotal evidence. Show me the actual numbers and we'll talk :-)

Ron, I'm sorry but I haven't seen the crime increase you are referring to. According to Everyblock, robberies in Old Irving were 33 in the past 12 months (09-10), 38 the 12 mos. before that (08-09) and 24 the 12 mos prior to that (07-08). I can think OF some gun violence around Addison and Laramie, which I agree is alarming, but is definitely the exception, not the rule, thankfully. I don't mean to discount any crime you or anyone else has experienced, but three robberies a month doesn't sound a crime wave to me.

OIPA sent out an e-mail this morning that said there was an armed robbery at Grace and Lowell on Friday night at 930. I was walking a block north of there at 9:30 walking home from Sabatinos. It could have been myself and my wife that were mugged on a side street in Old Irving. Very scary. Sure there's riff-raff around the school and on Irving but now it's migrated onto the side streets.

This is how the thugs take over areas in the city...robberies...burglaries...rapes....etc. Lived here my entire life and had to leave the gorgeous South Shore neighborhood......moved to Rogers Park late 60's......ran out of that high crime area also......Lakeview,,,,not so great anymore....now this area! I see in the past year the undesirables walking around and it 's getting creepy. If they can run out the last of the so called nice neighborhoods.....mission accomplished! They will have the whole city!

I really hope this is just an overreaction because it seems like the crime in our neighborhood is the same crime that happens in every Chicago neighborhood. Not that armed robbery isnt serious and there are a handful of day time home burglaries in the neighborhood every day it seems.
If you are really concerned about the crime in the neighborhood I hope I see every one of you at the next CAPS meeting. Also make sure to call 911 on suspicion of anything. All calls are recorded and logged. The more calls an area has the more of a police presence there will be in that area. Furthermore make sure your doors and windows are secure, especially the back of the home, because most break ins are occurring during the work day from the back of the house.

Of course I call 911. But what good does calling 911 do if I call AFTER my home as been burglarized?

Things are changing in the neighborhood even if it is gleamed only from anecdotal evidence.

And if you believe that crime is down because the stats say so....

Chicago Bob, of course crime is the same crime that happens in every Chicago neighborhood.

The problem I have lately is the frequency in which crime occurs.

Avondale is full of glass from bums and kids breaking into cars. Businesses are being burglarized at night; homes are burglarized during the day; residents are being mugged walking their dogs at 9:30 at night. The frequency in which crime is happening and alerts are being sent out by OIPA is increasing and I'm getting afraid it's too late. I hope I'm wrong.

You never see any cops around....never a squad car going down sidestreets...letting their presence be known! The city should put me out writing tickets on Grace between Drake and St. Louis , Grace is one way going West and the cars that turn East on Grace at Drake going toward Elston is mind boggling! I've seen at least a 100 cars do this and never a ticket in the past 10 months! Never see or hear from the Alderman! OUTRAGEOUS!

"All the criminals need to do is cross Addison or Pulaski ..." Yeah...people from The Villa are downright scary. If they cross Pulaski over into Old Irving...God help us.

I understand Ron Tough's and gerigirl's concerns. I'm technically in the Kilbourn Park neighborhood. I too have noticed a rise in criminal elements/activities and it concerns me as well.

I think Chicago Bob was suggesting that, we, as citizens, need to take on a more active role in protecting/cleaning up 'our own' neighborhoods by watching and reporting suspicious activity. Unfortunately, unless we alert the police they can't do anything about it. We don't nor want to live in a [Goerge Owell] 'Big Brother is watching you' society so we have to share some of the responsibility.

I'm very close to Schurz high school and I see police presence around here. Marked and unmarked vehicles during the day when the kids get out of school and during the night canvasing.

We've had a patrol car sit just out of sight of a corner w/ a stop sign that drivers routinely run through. In a couple hours, I'll bet that officer gave out 20-25 tickets. Why was the officer watching that corner? Because the people on the block complained about it enough. There's a lot children around here. Now the alderman is considering putting a speed hump on the street. Personally, I hate those speed bumps but if it'll save a child's live, go for it.

The times that 911 was called, the response time was quick. But we gotta willing to get involved and call!

I have a neighbor who isn't afraid to call 911 and leave her name. We laugh about it sometimes because her husband doesn't want her to get involved. The other night we had a guy screaming, 'help', 'omg! all the blood', 'get me a towel'... Her husband wanted her to ignore it & go to sleep but she called 911. And good for her... because you know what, it could be her next time or one of you and don't want to know your neighbors would call the police if you needed help? [Not sure if this still holds true but I've always heard you yell 'FIRE' instead of 'help' as people are more willing to call police then.]

Remember though, If it's NOT an EMERGENCY, call 311 or your alderman to report things like the Drake and St. Louis corner, people disturbing the peace, areas used for drinking, drug use, continual broken liquor bottles and/or used syringes or any suspicious people/activity that AREN'T actually committing a crime that you know off.

Other things to do could be:
-Go to CAPS meetings.
-Talk w/ your neighbors.
-Contact your alderman's office.
-Keep up with the news. Maybe you want to check the sex offender registries and alert your neighbors if a violent predator lives in the area. Find a website for crime info such as everyblock or avondalelogansquarecrime.
-Purchase and know how to use pepper spray [legal in chicago w/ restrictions] or even better, a Personal Alarm [check out womenonguard com and search for: Personal Alarm]
-Take your cell phone w/ you when taking a walk/walking the dog.
-Keep a mini flashlight on your keyring
-Pay attention to your surroundings --always! Seriously, keep your eyes open when approaching your car in dimly lite / unpopulated areas. Walk erect and confident. Criminals generally look for 'weak' victims.
-Is installing a house alarm an option? Too expensive? Maybe just buy one of those ADT signs to stick in front of your house as a deterrent.
-Install locks on gates leading to backyards
-Install or replace burned out bulbs at external entrances and walkways of your home.
-Close windows at ground level after dark, when you're asleep or work.
-Install window safety locks, deadbolts, peepholes.
-Check on your neighbors well being.
-Let neighbors know if you're going out of town. 'Hire' a trusted neighbor kid to pick up your mail.

****DISCLAIMER****
Use your own judgment as I'm sure the following is the right thing to do or right in every case but *I think* in abduction situations, once you're abducted, your chances of survival are slim. My husband tells me this all the time:
-If someone tries to abduct you, DO NOT go with them. Fight 'em with all you have. Let 'em shoot you, stab you, whatever the threat just don't go. Obviously people are overpowered but IF you have a chance, take it.

So, yeah, none of this changes the fact that there have been and will be more muggings and home invasions. The idea is to create a neighborhood that's discourages criminals so that they have to find someone else to go.
It takes a village....

Ron,

Thanks for sharing your fears. A tough pill to swallow.

All I can say is wow. Several times I've read your post & each time it comes across as judgmental & elitest. Especially the "us rich people" comment & "those criminals".

Perhaps running away to Park Ridge will bring a false sense of security.

I used to live in Vernon Hills (where a kid was shot) & niles which borders Pak Ridge on Touhy (still crime there too).

Maybe a gated community, like Tiger Woods? Oops crime there too. (Domestic Violence)

We can run but we can not hide,

Maybe a community watch would be more effective.

Paul

Paul: Your comments are inane and a straw man. Comparing murders and violence to tiger woods is dumb.

Murders in a four mile radius of Old Irving Park.

Look northwest of our neighborhood, and compare that to the south, west and north.

http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/search/?d=4&address=4000+w+irving+park+orad#homicide_link_2514

One murder in three years northwest. Lots of murders south and west of us.

Face it, we live on the fringes of the safer areas in the city. we are a frontier neighborhood. I can only hope and pray that our neighborhood, where I've invested so much, doesn't go to hell in the upcoming years.

Great discussion! @Ron, I think one reason we perceive crime as going up is it is easier to be informed about it. If Anna(?) didn't send out her OIPA updates you may not have even heard about the armed robbery. If we didn't check EveryBlock we'd be just as blissfully happy as the days before it's inception.

Now that being said, crime is occurring. We don't know really if it's more or less than in the past, but regardless, reducing it is in everyone's best interest. For those of you who do not get the OIPA newsletter go to http://www.oldirvingpark.com/Membership.aspx and join for a mere $15/year (and you can now pay via PayPal). You get a hardcopy newsletter monthly with lots of info, and email updates. I think getting to know your neighbors and being aware of what's happening is the first step to keeping criminal elements at bay.

My kids watched two punks steal a car in broad daylight on Byron last weekend. You all can debate paranoia, but I kind of want the punks to feel less safe on these streets than me.

And the police report on that auto theft hasn't been posted yet after two weeks.

LOOK: another armed robbery in the streets of Old Irving. This is the 3rd or 4th this month. What the hell is going on in this neighborhood? It seems to me that criminals are stalking the streets of Old Irving ... this is messed up, really messed up.
__________________________________
Robbery

* 3900 block N. Kilbourn Ave Robbery: Armed: handgun

Place: Street. Reported at 11:30 p.m. on October 18, 2010. Post a comment

What world do you live in that is the void of crime? It is not my world. Stateofwi I have a question for you, what makes a person a "have not"? Is a "have not” a person that does not wear a suit? Is it your suit that makes you a "have"? If this is your criteria then are teachers, police men, firemen, postmen, plumbers, electricians, bus drivers, cooks, business owners, custodians, and so many more working class citizen who make up this neighborhood considered "have nots"? There are many people who have lived in this neighborhood for over 2 decades even when (according to another post) this neighborhood was "hell", they never felt unsafe. Their families have grown up happy, safe, and prosperous. We continue to live in this neighborhood productive "have nots".
Do you give the label or stereotype of "have not" because you consider them poor or deviants? In the economic crisis we are in the "have nots" in my opinion are desperate families searching for a way to survive. They may be desperate for a variety of reasons...unable to provide for their families in the way of food, shelter, or basic necessities.
I know what you are thinking...it is the gang members and drug addicts from the "south and east" that are robbing our neighborhood, I don't think so. After teaching in gang ridden neighborhoods throughout Chicago (south and west), I have noticed a common behavior...gang members very rarely leave their "block" or neighborhood. This is where they feel in power or safe from social norms.

to be continued...

and here is the ending...

I will end my post with a story. My mother in law lives in Old Irving Park. At the beginning of the summer her garage was broken into while she was at work. A neighbor that was at home called the police. The individual went down the street and tried to rob another garage. He did not get far due to the neighbor's call. As the police were arresting the individual, there were several other calls about the theft this individual had done. My point is, we will always have crime we live in a large metro area, but what makes this area GREAT is the fact that your neighbors make up a community and watch out for each other. We watch out for each other because we care.
My advice...move to Park Ridge with the other "haves", the "have nots will stay here and enjoy our strong community.

Time to take an evening walk.

erocks78: don't believe every rant or rave you read on the internet. Sometimes a random rant is there just there for entertainment. seriously, some girl goes on the internet and rants and raves about the 'haves' and the 'have nots' committing crime in Old Irving and you believe it's real? This is too ridiculous to be real but it sure is funny as hell and got a ton of people all riled up. Hahahahahaah

I have lived at Six Corners for 6 years and I do have to agree with Ron that it does feel sketchier. It is not enough to make me move because if the crime has increased here, then it has increased everywhere.. Having a baby and a wife at home, I see why Ron is so upset. I have a friend that lives in Wilmette off of Sheridan in a "Tiger Woods" sort of compound. A man climbed the fence and attacked their housekeeper. Unfortunately, this is happening everywhere.

Let me tell you something, Stateofwi: My parents moved to Old Irving in the late 40s and lived there until they had to go into nursing care in 2005. Before I was born in 1952, my father was mugged near Keeler and Irving. He was robbed in his store at gunpoint in the 70s. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that crime is new in OIP, even violent crime. It's not.

With the economy in the shape its in, more crime is inevitable. If it disturbs you then by all means you need to leave the area. I don't know where you'll go because unless you're prepared to live out in the middle of nowhere, or in some sort of armed fortress, you can be a crime victim.

Your last response to erocks78 suggests that your initial post was made to rile people up. Is this the case? Are you posting things just to cause arguments? That's so productive, so helpful to the rest of us, and frankly I think it's grounds for getting you banned.

Hey everyone, just a reminder about our comment policy. http://www.everyblock.com/about/comment-policy/

Let's keep the conversation respectful. Thanks.

Becca, I am not sure "respectful" is the issue so much as an admission of trolling. Trolling seems to be far outside the spirit of the rules, even if there is no specific prohibition.

P.S. "Don't be libelous." Words to live by.

Also: Don't be a troll, particularly in a forum where people are actively seeking and implementing solutions to problems at a grassroots level.

Aaaaand apparently our troll has been disappeared. This is A Good Thing, as Miss Martha would say. I get so tired of people who have nothing but negativity to offer. Thanks to everyone who spoke up for common sense.

Gerigirl you Alderman is Rey Colón, Call him regarding your complaint every day if needed. I have called his office and his staff is pretty clueless. I asked them about the new Chipoltes going in on Elston and Addison and they said that is that our ward? Asking me. Seriously! Make yourself know there and make it know you are an advocate for your neighborhood in his office. If you still do not get results write city council committee members that over see this (Committee on Pedestrian and Traffic Safety) and the mayor. Colon does sit on the committee and believe me your actions will get his attention. He does not want to be shamed by his own actions and ignoring your request. Good Luck!

Office Address
2710 North Sawyer Avenue
Chicago, Illinois 60647
Ward phone
(773) 365-3535
Ward Fax
(773) 365-7391

The Committee on Pedestrian and Traffic Safety has jurisdiction over all orders, ordinances, resolutions and matters relating to regulating vehicular, bicycle and pedestrian traffic, on or off street parking, public safety, highways, grade separations, protected bicycle lanes, Chicago bicycle and pedestrian plans and studies, Chicago metropolitan area traffic studies and highways development, and matters generally affecting the Bureau of Street Traffic and the Bureau of Parking, the Police Traffic Bureau, and public and private organizations dealing with traffic and bicycle and pedestrian safety.

Chairman: Laurino

Vice-Chairman: Graham

Members:
Burns, Sawyer, Harris, Balcer, Quinn, Brookins, Munoz, Ervin, Mell, Colon, Mitts, Cappleman, Silverstein

Old Irving Park Going to Hell - READ my post on "Dogfighting in our Neighborhood". YES...it feels like its going to hell in a handbasket (as my grandmother use to say.)

@the OP
Yes, it sounds as though you should move.

P.S., my Troll-o-meter was going haywire.

Joan she is not kidding about the dogs. It happened http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/6274350-418/crackdown-on-nw-side-gang-nets-5-dogfighting-arrests.html

Joan she is not kidding the dog thing happened:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/6274350-418/crackdown-on-nw-side-gang-nets-5-dogfighting-arrests.html

Not sure if that is Mayfair, Albany Park or IP. But either way it is on the boarder of all of these areas. Glad they discovered this and cleaned it up.

Joan she is not kidding about the dogs. It happened http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/6274350-418/crackdown-on-nw-side-gang-nets-5-dogfighting-arrests.html

@Jaxx x 3
OP = Original Poster (Mr. Inactive)

I did not see that. It takes off the name when you go inactive? Thanks for the heads up! The dog thing though is pretty scary! It also makes sense all the tagging we were seeing in the spring. All of a sudden it was everywhere. Glad they are gone. But it does blow my mind that something like that could go undiscovered for so long!

oh! LOL! I was thinking X 3 what is she talking about. Sorry! No idea why it posted 3 times. The internet browers was "hanging" after I pressed send. Sorry!

"It takes off the name when you go inactive?"

No, I think that "Inactive user" is just his handle. And I'm sure this thread didn't really need my sarcasm, but jeez....the negativity. And why it is it always someone who apparently has NOT been impacted by crime to be so fearful about rape, robbery and general mayhem? I think the dripping racism in his first paragraph turned me off from the get go.

People like to be negative for some strange reason. I do not get trolling. How does one take pleasure in that? They must be very lonely.

I feel very safe in this neighborhood. We have never had anything happen where I live (the neighborhood behind the Market Place). I have a very big dog and I also have an alarm. My neighborhood is filled with big dogs and honestly I think that is key. Someone walks down the block and one starts barking, then the next and the next. Every house on my side of the street on my block has at least one or more dogs over 60 lbs. Mine is 95lb German Shepard. The other side of the block has 3 dogs. I never slept better than after I brought home my dog! I had my alarm first, then the dog. The dog was the key to my feeling secure. The neighboring streets are also dog filled. We are a dog neighborhood and people walking their dogs are on our streets all day and in the evening as well. It is also strange how many people walk their dogs over here and they come from across Cicero too!

Joan, the original name on those Inactive User posts was Stateofwi. I referenced it in my first post on this topic. Everyblock did remover his/her name.

I live on the border of Albany Park and Old Irving Park and I feel very safe. The neighborhood does not feel like it is "going to hell in a handbasket" to me. There are problems that affect both our neighborhoods and one of them which seems to go unaddressed are the illegitimate massage places. I would like to see some of these which are not offering legitimate massage therapy or acupuncture inspected and shut-down. "Rub n' tug" joints dot Irving Park, Montrose, and Lawrence. I'm referring to places like Zeus Massage and others that have neon "Open" signs in the window and the blinds drawn. To anyone who might opine that these types of businesses aren't hurting anyone, they routinely employ either trafficked women or those coerced either by force, threats or financial pressure to work there. These types of places exists in many city neighborhoods but I have noticed more popping up in this area and it does concern me.

Take a look at this criminal complaint. Though the "spa" where all of this took place is not located in our hood, the women noted as victims were recent arrivals to the United States and were immediately "schooled" at a business at 5054 Irving Park Road that had a dicey attached massage establishment. This is where they were procured for the other business.

www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/chicago/2010/pr0113_02a.pdf

If you do have any information regarding possibly trafficked women in our neighborhood, you can always reach out to the National Human Trafficking Hotline at 1-888-3737-888.

http://www.polarisproject.org/what-we-do/national-human-trafficking-hotline/the-nhtrc/overview

Folks may remember a claim of rape in Ronan Park about 2 years ago. The victim of the rape later admitted that the rape took place at her place of business, a massage establishment, but the owner wouldn't let her report it there (http://www.windycitizen.com/blogs/albany-park-post/2010/04/23/caps-1713-recap-fake-ronan-park-rape-shooting-at-georges-pita-kabo)

Dear Mr. Inactive User,

As someone who has lived in Portage Park my entire life, which appears to be one of the "undesirable areas to the West" that you refer to, I take real offense to your condescending attitude. Many of your comments suggest that you appear to live in some type of bubble where you think that people who can afford, or want to "appear" to be able to afford to live in a certain area should be immune to crime. Crime is an unfortunate reality all over our city, no one is immune. Things in Portage Park have improved tremendously over the past few years.

You commented that people who live in OIP are "the ones who wear business suits." Get over yourself!
I suggest that you take a look at the crime rates all over the city and get your facts straight before you post such condescending garbage here. Maybe if you could get over all your "fears" and actually step out of your bubble and visit the neighborhoods that surround you, you would find a certain respect for them and the people who live in them.

Hey guys, just to clarify, when it says "inactive user" it means the person is no longer a registered EveryBlock user.

lol. Is that EveryBlock-speak for "banned?"

(signed) Rat on the Run.

Becca, since this person clearly identified themselves as a troll, is there any way to remove the thread altogether? The title of it is rather provoking and can be considered offensive to those of us who actually live here and enjoy doing so. I'm not one for censorship, but since it was posted by someone who was behaving dishonestly I would respectfully request that EveryBlock would please consider removing the whole thread.

Not necessarily. It can mean that the user asked us to close their account for a variety of reasons or they were banned.

Good to know, Becca. Thanks.

Rosemarie, while I disapprove of trolling I do think that there are some very good comments on this thread and some interesting points of view. While I agree that it is, on the face of it, provoking, I also think there's a certain degree of responsibility we all have to scan the thread before we reply. That's true of any thread in any forum, IMO. It prevents a lot of repetition. That said, I admit I'm not always good at doing it either. :-\

I think it might be a shame to delete the thread entirely. Perhaps a sticky note at the top saying that the initial post was a troll, please read the thread before replying? I don't know if EB can or will do that, but it might calm things down a bit.

@Becca, i would tend to agree with @Rosemarie that a post that is admittedly a farce should be removed to keep people from freaking out when they get that subject heading in the inbox.

SecondCitySavvy - I agree with you. The author admitted it was a farce and people don't read entire thread. Then we start all over with unproductive postings and responses. And rightly so as the original posting was ridiculous and absurd.

Just a suggestion: This thread is over. Let's STOP POSTING!