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Added Apr 09 2017

Dear Neighbors:

Below please find a link to the site plan for the fast food restaurant with a drive-thru that has been proposed for the southeast corner of Irving Park Rd. and Central Ave, which PPNA received after requesting it from the developer’s attorney:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8sm_tSOhk6wT19XaDh5X3JCTnRKV2xCVFZFd0NSZ184VUZ3/view?usp=sharing

The developer must apply for a special use permit to gain approval for the drive-thru. Such applications are decided by the Zoning Board of Appeals (ZBA) and the developer’s application for this project is on the agenda for the next ZBA meeting, here are the meeting details:

Zoning Board of Appeals (ZBA) Meeting
Friday, April 21st
9:00 a.m.
121 N. LaSalle St, Room 200

ZBA Agenda: https://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/zlup/Administrative_Reviews_and_Approvals/Agendas/ZBA_Apr_2017_Agenda.pdf

PPNA is opposed to the site plan for the development and board members will attend the ZBA Meeting to testify. We encourage all residents to attend and voice their opinion. For those who cannot attend, PPNA will be drafting a letter of opposition that residents may sign. We will collect signed letters and submit them to the ZBA at the meeting. 

As it is too lengthy to post in its entirety here, please see our official position and the reasons for our opposition at:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gnpNMIPPSuNYiu90c4MPBI1G5gVWiSudojCDtfTErPA/edit?usp=sharing

    Irving/Central Development Site Plan
    https://drive.google.com
  • Deutsch portage36

    If this is the Starbucks, i'm all for it. That would be a great spot for a Starbucks. A far as the starbucks goes, i hear nothing but great feedback from the residents. Many want to see it there.

  • Deb R 60641 resident 40 + yrs.

    Dear PPNA-yes, let's keep this neighborhood as out of date as possible!

  • Starbucks would be great for Irving and central. Everyone I speak to lives the idea.

  • Ok PPNA you were against the development at Irving and Narragansett and didn't have any ideas as to what would be a better fit, now there will be apts built there and they are going to ask $1.700 a month for them. What happens if they don't fill them? I think everyone knows that answer. This is a terrific spot for the Starbucks. As far as pedestrian crossing goes, the 3 traffic related deaths were each a mile away from that intersection,maybe folks need to pay attention to the rules when crossing the street.

  • You guys should try reading the links. Starbucks is apparently a target, but has no agreement with the developer. It could be any business that uses a drive thru, and any hours. Their other big objection to zoning is allowing left turns out of the property on to both Irving and Central. Those left turns would be insane and dangerous. They are not wrong about that at all.

  • @Portage parke, imagine someone making a left from this property on to westbound Irving Park Road. That. Is. A. Terrible. Idea. Making it legal is just stupid.

    Also, that park has literally hundreds of kids in it during summer weekend days. While it would be better if all of them, and their families were to pay attention to "rules" when crossing streets (although paying attention to cars is infinitely more worthwhile), maybe we could avoid doing just one or two things to make intersections more dangerous for them.

  • J.Jaqsin Just the Facts, Mam

    I think they should ask the designers of the traffic pattern at The HIP for advice. That's a winner

  • CHIPOLCON Lifelong Chicagoan and political operative.

    PPNA is coming out against this development becuz there are local businesses that do not want Starbucks as competition. This organization is made up of a handful of old people that do not represent the majority of residents in our community. Frankly, I am sick to death of these people assuming they control what happens in our community. If this development doesn't get approved it will be a long time before we see any more national franchises wanting to open here. I for one will be attending the zoning hearing and making it know that I support the proposed development. Local businesses should provide a better product if they want to be competitive. Don't use the zoning process to kill your competition.

  • They are superclear in their document that it is not because of other local businesses. You can say that it *really* is, but the reality is that they have identified two serious, but addressable issues. First, commit to no left turns out of the lot (which seems pretty easy), and second, say whether there is a committed tenant. If there is not, that's fine, but allowing people to assume it's Starbuck's when it may not be is not helping the community evaluate the proposal.

  • @CHIPOLCON: "PPNA is coming out against this development becuz there are local businesses that do not want Starbucks as competition."

    That is false, please read our statement. We do not mention any other local businesses.

    "This organization is made up of a handful of old people..."

    Depends what you consider old, board members are in their forties and fifties and we have a twentysomething volunteer doing a bang up job on our calendar of neighborhood events, shameless plug:

    http://www.portagepark.org/events.html

    We welcome any person, young or old, in the community who would like to become a PPNA member or become involved in running the PPNA.

    Also, there is also no guarantee that this will be a Starbucks. If approved, the developer can lease/sell it to any fast food restaurant with a drive-thru.

    And there is something that doesn't make sense here. Why is Starbucks okay with attaching it's name to their proposed location at Berteau & Cicero but will not do so here? Seems kind of fishy that they would operate one way on that parcel and a different way on this one.

  • Michael McDonough Resident of BelCragin

    And isn't there already a coffee place nearby at Irving Park Rd and Linder Av?

  • CJC Homeowner since 2000

    From just reading all the posts, I think everyone can agree on the following:
    1) Demand to know what business will occupy this space
    2) Enforce a no left turn from parking lot standard. Really, we can all agree that is not
    a good idea for that corner.
    Can we all agree we don't need a Wendy's or Burger King or similar there? None of those would help the neighborhood.

  • So PPNA doesn't support economic development and growth no matter what it is in Portage Park?

  • Those two accidents that happened were within 2-3 block within each other and over a mile from the proposed site. If the Starbucks was going where the old Browns Chicken is, then that would be a concern and I can see why the PPNA is opposed because it is blocks away. But I don't understand how you can say that these two accidents that are a mile away from Irving and Central will have a correlation with what CAN happen at Irving and Central. You only have two forms of data and you cant base off decisions with so little data. Also, the proposed drive thru is no where near the cross walks, so If you cross at the light, you should be fine. What I can tell you through research and data is that Starbukcs tremendously helps out the community. Homes near Starbucks have appreciated 96% since 1997. All you people on the fence, read this article and then tell me what you think.

    Article : https://qz.com/334269/what-starbucks-has-done-to-american-home-values/

  • Quit assuming that accidents will happen just like we cant assume there will be a Starbucks.

  • If it was up to the PPNA nothing would be built there.

  • @Me123: The fatality at Ainslie was just over a mile, the other two are under a mile from the intersection of Irving Park Rd. & Central Ave.

    Our point is that Central Ave. seems particularly dangerous for pedestrians. Can you name another street that has seen 3 pedestrian fatalities in a 14-block stretch (3500N to 4900N) in the past 10 years, let alone the past 21 months?

  • If you guys really want to be technical the accident at Central and Giddings is exact .9 miles away which is a mile if we are rounding up. Has anything happened block from either direction of the drive thru? I am not sure, so why worry about what has happened only a mile away when we should worry about the history around where they are going to put the drive thru. I think you guys are looking too much into the safety concern and not realizing that this development at Central and Irving can do for this community.Again, if the accidents happened within 2-4 blocks I am with you guys, but a mile? Just doesn't make a strong argument or case for not having a drive thru. Quick question, did the PPNA oppose the Starbucks at Six Corners?

  • I support the proposed development. Why would anyone be so against development? What would be so bad about bringing a Starbucks into the community. Traffic? What wouldn't cause there to be more traffic? Most households have more than one car. People are driving more; there are more cars on the road. Both drivers and pedestrians need to be more vigilant about their safety and about the safety of those around them. Accidents that occurred nearly a mile from this location is not a reason to be against this development. What about the man that was killed a year ago right in front of Portage Park in a hit and run in front of the small coffee shop at Irving and Linder? There is no big drive thru over there. You can't correlate drive-thru's with traffic accidents. Think about it. This development project would be a great addition to the community.

  • I agree neighbor.

  • Why is it ok for a Starbucks at Berteau and Cicero and all the economic development at 6 corners and moving west a culvers and a binnys. When is it our turn to eat and enjoy all the benefits east? There is nothing going on in that section of Portage Park especially south of Irving on Central. That is where I live and so many neighbors agree, ENOUGH IS A ENOUGH!!!!!!

  • If the PPNA supported the Starbucks over on Cicero, then that group is full of hypocrites. 4 lane Cicero ave is far more dangerous than 2 lane central ave.

  • Absolutely right Me, it has everything to do with 2 coffee shops. They will survive again 3 Mexican restaurants within feet of each other are doing just fine. How about the Dairy Queen and within 4 blocks the ice cream shop at Berteau and central? Both doing just fine.

  • We support a Starbucks at Irving & Central, though we are not convinced it will be a Starbucks. We do not support the site plan. They are two different things.

  • Whoever runs PPNA doesn't pay close attention to detail. On the blueprint it specifically says on the building with the drive thru "NEW COFFEE SHOP WITH DRIVE THU" That right there assures that this building will be involved with coffee and will be a Starbucks. THERE WILL BE NO FAST FOOD RESTAURANT. SO THAT MEANS PPNA SHOULD DELETE THIS POST AND WRITE A NEW PROPOSAL ON SUPPORTING THIS ZONING CHANGE FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

    PPNA WHATS NEXT?

  • @SamZ: The article says there were more deaths on Ashland but over a stretch of 44 blocks, not 14, and over 36 months.

    Also, it's a good article and supports our arguments, from the article:

    "As traffic deaths rise nationally and locally, major arterials in the city and suburbs are a good place to examine why so many deaths happen and how they might be avoided, according to transportation experts.

    ...

    Arterials are wider and busier than residential streets, and people tend to drive fast when they can, said Heather Schady, senior transportation planner for the Active Transportation Alliance. There are also many places to turn since they are often lined with businesses. These all create opportunities for accidents."

  • Interesting discussion about the poor configuration of the Starbucks on Western Ave. causing all kinds of traffic and safety issues, including for people just trying to walk by the place since the cars block the sidewalk:

    https://chicago.everyblock.com/kindness/dec07-starbucks-western-drive-thru-7852524/

  • There was construction going on at the time so the lanes were reduced. Also, this Starbucks is on a smaller lot where not many cars can fit when waiting for drive thru. The proposed lot has 280 feet east to west for cars to wait.

  • CJC Homeowner since 2000

    I'm located just 2 1/2 blocks from this location, and about 3 1/2 from all the 6 Corners additions. If this is truly going to be a Starbucks I'm all for it. Studies show that property values for homes located within 3-4 blocks of a new Starbucks increase by as much as 15%! Include the new 6 Corners establishments and I might just make some money on my home when I sell 5-6 years from now. I'm all for this (if it is indeed a Starbucks).

  • Dan G Scratch and win

    Let's bring In-N-Out burger.

  • In n out would be great

  • The opposition is not about "left turns" in and out of this proposed retail center. It's about the drive through. Period. PPNA has opposed it from Day 1.

    Nov. 3 2016.
    "It is our understanding that Starbucks will not open this store without a drive-thru. Given the traffic safety concerns, we cannot support a zoning change at this location if it were to require a drive-thru for this or any other business. If Starbucks or another business decides to open at that location we will certainly welcome their arrival, but we remain steadfast in our belief that a drive-thru at this location is detrimental to the community."

    They now are citing three unfortunate pedestrian fatalities as reason to oppose. The fact is none of them occurred at a similar business layout (drive-thru). And none of them occurred within close proximity to this location.

    They are also trying to sow doubt as to which business will anchor the development as quoted in this.

    https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20170413/portage-park/portage-park-starbucks-sposato-ppna-portage-grounds-six-corners-irving-central-traffic-safety

  • @Bill the Engineer: That is the position we took on the first developer's plan. When the second meeting was announced, it was not clear at first that it was a different developer so we felt the need to post a position. The meeting on the second developer's plan was not held until November 10, 2016, a week after we made this statement.

    At the meeting on the second development, the developer indicated that the entrances/exits could be changed to be curved, allowing only for right turns in and out. Our current opposition is based on the fact that they did not do that.

  • Are we assuming they didn't make those corrections? Or is it written in stone that they are not putting a no right turn? Remember PPNA we can't just assume things.

  • Sorry no left turn

  • @Me123: It seems pretty clear from the plan that left turns will be possible. The copy of the plan was obtained from the developer's attorney on March 31st.

  • Also it seems pretty clear that it wont by a Taco Bell or a KFC. Right? Because from the plans it says Coffee Shop with Drive thru

  • i would like a taco bell, I miss the one that was on cicero.

  • I have to say ME123 that PPNA can't read that, I see it.

  • This comment has been removed by EveryBlock staff.
  • @prof,

    my diet is the perfect American diet.

    my standing order for taco bell, 10 hard shell tacos, a nacho supreme with no sour cream and a large diet pepsi, but I have not been to one in awhile

    here are some of what i order around here:

    chipotle is 2 steak burritos brown rice, black beans, salsa, corn, and cheese then a cup of hot sauce to pour on top.

    jeffs double cheeseburger with bacon everything, including hot peppers no mustard, fries and a cup of cheese

    burger king texas whopper, 1 bacon cheeseburger, onion rings with onion ring sauce, and a large diet coke

    hot dog express, double bacon cheeseburger, fries with a cup of cheese, diet pop

    al's pizza small sausage pizza, mozzarella sticks and a cannoli

    hong kong restaurant. tomato pepper steak, order of egg rolls, 2 packs almond cookies, watermelon smoothie (no tapioca), sometimes bbq pork

    mr submarine roast beef king with hot peppers, mozzarella cheese sticks, large diet right (sometimes a bag of doritos)

    lucky grill Irish breakfast, coffee

    eat local, support local buisness

  • lucky grill's Irish breakfast is great, man. i'm in there every few weekends to get one.
    get the hash browns extra crispy (as lucky grills are usually soft), and substitute 1 of the black puddings for a white, so its 3 white pudding 1 black pudding. perfect. breakfast

  • PennyPenguin Chillin' out on EB

    I eat dry toast from Jewel

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